Injector "gunk" and E-85
Nov 8, 2009, 07:52 AM
#32
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Wow, that is pretty unbelievable. I have to take off my Precision 1200s and take a look. I never heard problems with the ball and seat injectors and E85. Good thread, a heads up to Ethanol users everywhere. The thing that is interesting is it appears that two of those injectors appear clean, the other two look gunked up. Do you remember which spots on the intake manifold they came from, would be interesting to see what the inside of the fuel rail looks like...
I too thought E85 ran cleaner than conventional gasoline, it is pretty obvious from the cylinder and spark plug comparison from an Ethanol engine and a normal Gasoline engine, way cleaner. To me it seems like either rubber fuel lines or fuel pump housing gunk found its way to the tip of the injector and caked up. Just my two cents. B.S. in Organic Chemistry, 1 year into my Masters...
I too thought E85 ran cleaner than conventional gasoline, it is pretty obvious from the cylinder and spark plug comparison from an Ethanol engine and a normal Gasoline engine, way cleaner. To me it seems like either rubber fuel lines or fuel pump housing gunk found its way to the tip of the injector and caked up. Just my two cents. B.S. in Organic Chemistry, 1 year into my Masters...
Most gas stations probably get it from the same distributor/ethanol plant.
Nov 8, 2009, 07:59 AM
#33
Thank you sir, I was worried for a second. I have read mostly threads who praise E85 for its cleanliness and ease of use on systems usually intended for 93 (or whichever) octane. I was just VERY surprised when I opened the thread and saw ALL THAT GUNK on a newer appearing ball and seat injector after only 2,000 miles. Definitely eye opening. Thought maybe someone had stumbled onto a specific injector who wasn't E85 friendly, wether it be the seating washer, or some other plastic part. Just made me fear for my poor cars life!
Last edited by buchnerj; Nov 8, 2009 at 08:03 AM.
Nov 8, 2009, 05:04 PM
#34
Ryan,
Damn! I was questioning whether we'd have this issue up here or not. Now this is another thing I'm going to have to check over the winter.
I am curious if gasoline would dissolve the "gunk" as other people have suggested doing.
If that's true, maybe running on straight 93 octane once every couple months would prevent the gunk from building up too much...
Damn! I was questioning whether we'd have this issue up here or not. Now this is another thing I'm going to have to check over the winter.
I am curious if gasoline would dissolve the "gunk" as other people have suggested doing.
If that's true, maybe running on straight 93 octane once every couple months would prevent the gunk from building up too much...
Nov 8, 2009, 05:17 PM
#35
Supposedly in a thread on Colorado DSM, a chemist analyzed the precipitate and found that it dissolves in gasoline. I haven't checked that thread in a while, but I think he may be working with a company on a solution.
But, if gasoline easily dissolves it, then running a tank of pump gas every once in a while should clean it up until a final root cause and solution is found.
Nov 8, 2009, 07:44 PM
#38
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Ryan,
Damn! I was questioning whether we'd have this issue up here or not. Now this is another thing I'm going to have to check over the winter.
I am curious if gasoline would dissolve the "gunk" as other people have suggested doing.
If that's true, maybe running on straight 93 octane once every couple months would prevent the gunk from building up too much...
Damn! I was questioning whether we'd have this issue up here or not. Now this is another thing I'm going to have to check over the winter.
I am curious if gasoline would dissolve the "gunk" as other people have suggested doing.
If that's true, maybe running on straight 93 octane once every couple months would prevent the gunk from building up too much...
I tried calling you on Saturday to tell you about this. But now that I have the motor further apart, I can see the buildup is also on the intake ports of the head and valves too. So I am going to see if gasoline or seafoam removes it. If gas removes it then I will just run it every so often to clean out the motor.
Nov 8, 2009, 07:55 PM
#39
Brent,
I tried calling you on Saturday to tell you about this. But now that I have the motor further apart, I can see the buildup is also on the intake ports of the head and valves too. So I am going to see if gasoline or seafoam removes it. If gas removes it then I will just run it every so often to clean out the motor.
I tried calling you on Saturday to tell you about this. But now that I have the motor further apart, I can see the buildup is also on the intake ports of the head and valves too. So I am going to see if gasoline or seafoam removes it. If gas removes it then I will just run it every so often to clean out the motor.
Let me know what you find out. I may just run a mixture of E85 and some 93oct the next week or two just in case.
Nov 17, 2009, 07:33 PM
#41
I'm concerned!!!.......I have been exploring the changes needed to get my 9 ready for E85.....Map switch cable via our member here & the GroupS solenoid needed for the tune......I contacted my Tuner & was ready to go until I started looking into this injector contamination issue.
I spent the last hour searching the WEB & reading about compliant E85 vehicles / E85 corrosion / metal fuel lines & tanks.....It has stopped my E85 progress dead in its tracks for now
I am not an Engineer or Chemist but I am in the mechanical field & feel that this "Gunk" is nothing more than fuel line / fuel tank degradation.....WTH, I am not happy enough to pursue the "Switch" to E85.....I need more positive info before I go fwd w/ the Mod.......My .02 added........Peace
I spent the last hour searching the WEB & reading about compliant E85 vehicles / E85 corrosion / metal fuel lines & tanks.....It has stopped my E85 progress dead in its tracks for now
I am not an Engineer or Chemist but I am in the mechanical field & feel that this "Gunk" is nothing more than fuel line / fuel tank degradation.....WTH, I am not happy enough to pursue the "Switch" to E85.....I need more positive info before I go fwd w/ the Mod.......My .02 added........Peace
Nov 17, 2009, 08:37 PM
#43
Minus, I offer two data points for your consideration:
1. There are numerous threads on this forum about EVO's successfully running on E85.
2. There are no threads about EVO's not running successfully on E85.
Who has been using E85 longest.
1. There are numerous threads on this forum about EVO's successfully running on E85.
2. There are no threads about EVO's not running successfully on E85.
Who has been using E85 longest.
Nov 18, 2009, 06:25 AM
#44
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I'm concerned!!!.......I have been exploring the changes needed to get my 9 ready for E85.....Map switch cable via our member here & the GroupS solenoid needed for the tune......I contacted my Tuner & was ready to go until I started looking into this injector contamination issue.
I spent the last hour searching the WEB & reading about compliant E85 vehicles / E85 corrosion / metal fuel lines & tanks.....It has stopped my E85 progress dead in its tracks for now
I am not an Engineer or Chemist but I am in the mechanical field & feel that this "Gunk" is nothing more than fuel line / fuel tank degradation.....WTH, I am not happy enough to pursue the "Switch" to E85.....I need more positive info before I go fwd w/ the Mod.......My .02 added........Peace
I spent the last hour searching the WEB & reading about compliant E85 vehicles / E85 corrosion / metal fuel lines & tanks.....It has stopped my E85 progress dead in its tracks for now
I am not an Engineer or Chemist but I am in the mechanical field & feel that this "Gunk" is nothing more than fuel line / fuel tank degradation.....WTH, I am not happy enough to pursue the "Switch" to E85.....I need more positive info before I go fwd w/ the Mod.......My .02 added........Peace
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/7130859-post61.html
Well, here is what I did just so everyone is clear. I filled a 40mL vial with E85 and blew it dry with nitrogen gas and mild heating (about 150*F). After there was no fuel left, I placed it under high vacuum to remove any remaining volatiles for about an hour. I was left with a clear sticky residue that smelled bad - like nasty frying oil. I dissolved this sample in the NMR solvent and analyzed it and it IS the same goo that was on the injector. There was smaller amounts of some other stuff in it as well, but the same peaks I saw in the black goo were in this residue. The black goo IS coming from the E85. It isn't naturally black, though. I suspect it just has soot mixed in with it that is giving it the color.
So the next challenge is figuring out why is this crap in our fuel, and if it is in everyone's fuel (particularly people who aren't having this problem).
So the next challenge is figuring out why is this crap in our fuel, and if it is in everyone's fuel (particularly people who aren't having this problem).
Nov 18, 2009, 07:16 AM
#45
Question....I posted this gunk issue on our local forum & one of our respected Guru's noted that the EVO does have a metal fuel tank & E85 compliant fuel lines.......Does that sound correct to you guys?.....I always thought the tank was molded plastic