Notices
Evo X Engine Management / Tuning Forums Discuss the major engine management systems.

knocking at low RPM

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Aug 8, 2009, 01:55 PM
  #1  
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
 
xhomm02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Czech rep.
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
knocking at low RPM

Hi all, I am running Cobb stage1-93 with pill removed on Evo X MR.

I tried to avoid engine damage and thatīs why I decided to log knock retard in a few drives. I always see high retard (1 - 6) uder these spec. conditions:

Full throttle at rpm 1000 going to 2500. At higher RPM and full throttle I only see very seldom knock up to 1.

Could anyone help me with this? I guess in these low RPM the removed pill cannot be the reason, am I right?

Here is the log:
Attached Files
File Type: zip
datalog2.zip (16.2 KB, 0 views)
Old Aug 8, 2009, 01:58 PM
  #2  
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
 
empirepb210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
yea thats a lot of knock alright
Old Aug 8, 2009, 02:39 PM
  #3  
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
 
xhomm02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Czech rep.
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes, I wonder why it does not knock under full boost in 4000-5000 RPM...
Old Aug 8, 2009, 03:10 PM
  #4  
Evolved Member
iTrader: (2)
 
AWDTerror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: St. Trollville
Posts: 881
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
it's normal. It's the way the ecu handles part throttle fueling and control.
A search of the forum would yield the same result. This is something that has been discussed to death, Cobb has even put out a big report on it.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...explained.html

Many of you have noticed while logging your cars, that you see instances of high knock-correction values and low-rpm and low load situations. There has been much speculation about the cause and effects of these occurrences.

To put your apprehension to rest, Tim Bailey, one of our most experienced and knowledgeable tuners has offered the following explanation of this phenomenon:

Modern engine control computers (ECU) monitor and constantly adjust engine parameters including fuel delivery, variable camshaft timing, and ignition timing. Under light load (low boost or vacuum conditions) the objective of this active adjustment is optimized fuel economy and power.

An important component of this active adjustment is changes to ignition timing. Utilizing the highest possible ignition timing is a simple way to enhance the mechanical energy for any given combustion cycle. This enhancement extracts the most torque for a given quantity of spent fuel.

The processes that manage optimal ignition timing at light load are complex and vary by vehicle type. Some ignition timing adjustments are active and based upon sensor feedback. One such sensor is the "knock sensor." This sensor is a simple microphone that listens for engine noise. Complex signal processing inside the ECU helps discriminate detonation from other types of engine noise. The thresholds for noise vs knock vary not only by engine speed but by engine load. The ECU will react to engine noise by actively removing ignition timing. This low-load "knock correction" is a normal and desirable process that promotes optimal ignition timing.

Other timing adjustments are programmed compensations that are predictive in nature. For example, on some vehicles a sharp increase in throttle position predicts a fast change in engine load. In preparation for a predicted change in engine load the ECU will preemptively remove some ignition timing. This compensation is not really knock correction at all but is instead a predictive ignition timing adjustment. Similar compensations exist for a variety of conditions including but not limited to changes in load, air temperature, boost temperature, and acceleration. Tuning strategies for predictive corrections vary by vehicle but are present in some form in every modern ECU.

Unfortunately, the monitors that allow us to monitor the ECU’s activities do not discriminate between predictive timing adjustments and those responding to sensor input. However, regardless of the type of compensatory timing adjustment, at LIGHT load, these corrections are a normal means with which to optimize power and fuel economy. Under light load there is simply not enough cylinder pressure to allow engine damage. As a result, light load "knock correction" is not something to worry about. This is a normal process that is even more apparent when utilizing stock calibrations designed to utilize a range of fuel quality.

Travis Geny
COBB Tuning
Old Aug 8, 2009, 03:23 PM
  #5  
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
 
xhomm02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Czech rep.
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I know, but this occures at HIGH load, full or almost full throttle.
Old Aug 8, 2009, 03:40 PM
  #6  
Evolved Member
iTrader: (2)
 
AWDTerror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: St. Trollville
Posts: 881
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by xhomm02
I know, but this occures at HIGH load, full or almost full throttle.
Based on your logs, you never even pass 54% on your throttle and your ABS pressure 17.19 which is not even 3PSI of boost during the knock events.

That is not HIGH load.
Old Aug 8, 2009, 03:46 PM
  #7  
Evolved Member
iTrader: (2)
 
AWDTerror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: St. Trollville
Posts: 881
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Here is your log


Full throttle would be 86-87% and your ABS pressure would be reading 35-38

Last edited by AWDTerror; Aug 8, 2009 at 03:49 PM.
Old Aug 8, 2009, 04:17 PM
  #8  
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
 
lowkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colleyville, TX
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by xhomm02
I am running Cobb stage1-93 with pill removed on Evo X MR.
Why? The Pill remove mod go along with the other Stage 2 mods. By itself you are asking for trouble. Put it back or get it tuned.
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Ferp
ECU Flash
0
Mar 11, 2017 09:50 AM
gosu.pianist
ECU Flash
21
Feb 18, 2008 11:49 AM
RedV
ECU Flash
17
Apr 2, 2007 10:38 AM
racegate
AEM EMS
6
Jul 17, 2005 01:35 PM



Quick Reply: knocking at low RPM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:29 PM.