Hi,

This is my first time tuning. I have a completely stock EVO 8 (JDM). I am running Octane 98. I do not have a wideband so I am just retarding my timing for now to get rid of knock. I have managed to get rid of high rpm knocks. But I can't seem to get rid of the knock at around 3000-5000rpm. Even 1* timing at 3500rpm gave me knock. Should I make my timing 0* or even negative to get rid of it?

1) What's that rpm dip in one of my logs? (it's just the 2byte rpm that's doing it, the "engine rpm" is fine)
2) Is there such a thing as too retarded a timing?
3) Does evo8 jdm have a map sensor that I can use to measure boost? I tried ticking the jdm map sensor in evoscan but it doesn't log anything.

If I was to go on to AFR tuning, would I be able to safely do so without a wideband? I read on the forums that people have tuned using the narrowband voltages.

And what are the effects of running the AFR too lean - ie. what are signs and what damages does it do? Would I be safe as long as it doesn't knock?

I have attached:
2 WOT logs on 3rd gear of my current tune
1 WOT log on 3rd gear of the stock tune
Original and current timing maps

Please look at my maps and tell me if I'm on the right track. Thank you very much!

 

I thought that that the JDMs did have the upgraded MAP sensor.

You should be able to run at least about 3-4 deg of timing at peak load which should be in the 3-4k range. I bet you are too lean. You should get a wideband to really know. Try adding a little fuel in the problem areas.

How much boost are you running? MBC? By the looks of your load numbers, it is not outrageous.

Is there a chance that your downpipe is hitting the crossmember?

Many people have 2-3 counts of knock in where you are knocking. Your low timing with knock merits some investigation though.

 

from what I remember I am only getting 2 or 3 degrees at 220 load, and my map is down to 1 by 260 from 2500 to about 4000.

as suggested make sure nothing is rubbing in the engine bay, downpipe, intercooler pipes. as odd as it sounds I think I was getting a p 300 code from an intercooler pipe, or from a metal underpan.

Since you are waiting for a wideband, you could try adding a touch of fuel in the area. If that doesn't work put it back or even try a little less.

lastly, two counts isn't the end of the world, if its short duration it may not be important. What you have there may be lasting a little long, I can't tell.

 

whoa egt's must be high...

 

Timing on my VIII is similar, now. I got knock just like you discribed. My timing now is low in advance in the range where boost hits, increases to redline. I would suggest not tuning AFR's without a wideband. For the cost of the equipment, you will be able to tune safe. $300 is worth safe tuning in my opinion.

 

have you tried any logs at less than wot? You may find that the 140 to 180 load sites have the real problem that shows itself at 220.

see if you can log those lower cells, part throttle up a hill... .
the map may need some lower ramp rates going back through the lower cells.
for example you have 2-5-10-?, you may find 3-4-6-8 works better for you. Or you may find 2-4-6-10 gives you no knock.
I road course my car and the car spends 30 minutes on the track, as much as I'd like to see 100 tps, most of the time is in between braking and 180 load. As a result my timing is much lower than stock from 70 load all the way out until the high load and high rpm where it passes stock.

generally speaking I wouldn't do anything without a wideband, but since you are backtracking.. .

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...=308720&page=5
post #68 is a map from sometime last year., WR turbo, a little WI and 262 cams

 

lol, quite precautios ey? I glanced over at that timing map you posted... wow, that is conservative. It's only scaled to 260 on the WR with WI? You can be much less conservative than that. I think I posted my timing map in that other thread too. It is for stock turbo, 25psi, WI roadrace tune. I see my 1s and 2s for knock and a 3 every now and then but no problems. Especially if you run something like 11.5:1. I run 12.

 

every time I try more timing I get knock, its not that I don't try.

 

plus, every car is different. do what your car needs.

 

True, every car is different. And hey, if you've tried then you've tried. Seems astoundingly low though... that's all I'm saying. Then again, I don't see the whole picture either.

 

I tried logging again today with a smoother timing map as suggested by nothere. Knock is still there. But I notice that even by adding timing to the 3k-5k rpm range, knock does not increase, so I would suspect it is AFR being too lean? My AFR map is stock - untouched.... and I read that they are already pretty rich. Should I rich out 3k-5k rpm range even more?

Some knock happening in the same 3k-5k at lower load cells (140-180) as well on a cruising log. Will try to retard that area more next time.

And how do I check for any pipe rubbing?

 

You wouldn't want to richen the AFR unless you knew it was too lean. Without the wideband you probably should leave the fuel map alone for now.

As for pipes and what not. Jack up the car and look a the clearances for the downpipe. If its cool, grab it and see if it easily is moving from side to side and could potentially hit anything.

Rinse and repeat for any other pipes.

 

Where are the locations of all other pipes?

 

possibly your AFR is wrong for these (low rpms) or maybe your fuel is not 98 octane ? As they wrote without a wideband it is very difficult to get good tune.

 

But I haven't touched the fuel maps... are they that bad from factory??

But yeah.... there seems is a bad lean spot just before 3000rpm then suddenly going rich after 3000rpm (see attached fuel map)

Would I be safe just to make that "V" in the fuel map less sharp? I suppose richening it would not damage anything? Just wasting fuel at most?