AWD Project Work Diary Thread
Sep 19, 2007, 03:53 PM
#47
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Im eager to try it, because I have Accolade's Evo IX front bumper, and I've always noticed that it has a larger gap at the front of the wheels than at the back. Whereas the stock bumper was more "flat" at the front and so the gap was smaller.
The Accolade Evo IX bumper seems to curve more. I estimate there is about 1 inch extra gap at front with Evo IX bumper:
Stock Bumper, flat front side, smaller gap:
Just look how close the wheel is to the bumper!
Accolade Evo IX front, bigger cap, curvier front:
Notice a lot more room at the front of the wheel than before... which is why I think Evo arms may just work for me.
And the same thing happens at the back. With Accolade's Evo IX rear bumper - there is now a bigger gap at the rear of the wheels than with the stock Bumper.
My personal belief is that Accolade took the Evo IX bumpers, and made almost direct copies of them, but modifying them so they fit. They must have failed to notice the wheel arches on the Evo have more gap!
So, I'll fit em and see what they look like. If they dont look to bad, ill keep em!
The Accolade Evo IX bumper seems to curve more. I estimate there is about 1 inch extra gap at front with Evo IX bumper:
Stock Bumper, flat front side, smaller gap:
Just look how close the wheel is to the bumper!
Accolade Evo IX front, bigger cap, curvier front:
Notice a lot more room at the front of the wheel than before... which is why I think Evo arms may just work for me.
And the same thing happens at the back. With Accolade's Evo IX rear bumper - there is now a bigger gap at the rear of the wheels than with the stock Bumper.
My personal belief is that Accolade took the Evo IX bumpers, and made almost direct copies of them, but modifying them so they fit. They must have failed to notice the wheel arches on the Evo have more gap!
So, I'll fit em and see what they look like. If they dont look to bad, ill keep em!
Sep 19, 2007, 06:01 PM
#48
Im eager to try it, because I have Accolade's Evo IX front bumper, and I've always noticed that it has a larger gap at the front of the wheels than at the back. Whereas the stock bumper was more "flat" at the front and so the gap was smaller.
The Accolade Evo IX bumper seems to curve more. I estimate there is about 1 inch extra gap at front with Evo IX bumper:
Stock Bumper, flat front side, smaller gap:
Just look how close the wheel is to the bumper!
Accolade Evo IX front, bigger cap, curvier front:
Notice a lot more room at the front of the wheel than before... which is why I think Evo arms may just work for me.
And the same thing happens at the back. With Accolade's Evo IX rear bumper - there is now a bigger gap at the rear of the wheels than with the stock Bumper.
My personal belief is that Accolade took the Evo IX bumpers, and made almost direct copies of them, but modifying them so they fit. They must have failed to notice the wheel arches on the Evo have more gap!
So, I'll fit em and see what they look like. If they dont look to bad, ill keep em!
The Accolade Evo IX bumper seems to curve more. I estimate there is about 1 inch extra gap at front with Evo IX bumper:
Stock Bumper, flat front side, smaller gap:
Just look how close the wheel is to the bumper!
Accolade Evo IX front, bigger cap, curvier front:
Notice a lot more room at the front of the wheel than before... which is why I think Evo arms may just work for me.
And the same thing happens at the back. With Accolade's Evo IX rear bumper - there is now a bigger gap at the rear of the wheels than with the stock Bumper.
My personal belief is that Accolade took the Evo IX bumpers, and made almost direct copies of them, but modifying them so they fit. They must have failed to notice the wheel arches on the Evo have more gap!
So, I'll fit em and see what they look like. If they dont look to bad, ill keep em!
It's not JUST the bumper that concerns me Diavlo... it's the fender and the wheel well too. You may be able to clear the bumper... but for sure your fenders and your wheel wells are gonna get jacked up.
look how off-center that is. And that is my car on jack stands... imagine how that's going to be once you put the car down and the struts compress... you're going to demolish those fenders!
I haven't even mentioned the difference in track width yet... the Ralliart's front track width is 57.9 in. while the EVO has it at 59.6 in. That's a difference of 1.7 inches total which means that you have an extra 0.85 inches of width on each side!
If you really wanted to do this EVO arm swap, I would suggest that you modify your fenders. A long stretch would be to obtain a set of EVO fenders and somehow modify those to fit on your Ralliart.
Sep 20, 2007, 03:50 AM
#50
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Thanks for the photos - its nice to see a problem before I get to it myself for a change!
In your photos however you are using the Evo wheels - they are far to wide to fit the lancer without flares, so I'll try them with proper wheels that fit. I believe, but dont know If im correct that Evo's have a higher profile tyre on their 17s than the lancers would use on a 17, which means that even without a wheelbase increasing lower arm, the evo wheels would rub the fenders on their own if fitted to a standard lancer. There is also a possiblity that Evo struts control Caster, I know TEIN's Evo struts are caster adjustable from the top of the strut.
Basically what I'm saying is, youve swapped over the whole Evo suspenion and wheels, and it didnt work. Fair enough. Im gonna try with just the Evo lower arm, and see what happens.
It aint too difficult to fit them though, so I will, and then I can see what could be done to keep them.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll let everyone know what I decide to do with mine.
In other news, my Turbo Kit is on its way! Pics and a full photo-diary install for that soon!
In your photos however you are using the Evo wheels - they are far to wide to fit the lancer without flares, so I'll try them with proper wheels that fit. I believe, but dont know If im correct that Evo's have a higher profile tyre on their 17s than the lancers would use on a 17, which means that even without a wheelbase increasing lower arm, the evo wheels would rub the fenders on their own if fitted to a standard lancer. There is also a possiblity that Evo struts control Caster, I know TEIN's Evo struts are caster adjustable from the top of the strut.
Basically what I'm saying is, youve swapped over the whole Evo suspenion and wheels, and it didnt work. Fair enough. Im gonna try with just the Evo lower arm, and see what happens.
It aint too difficult to fit them though, so I will, and then I can see what could be done to keep them.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll let everyone know what I decide to do with mine.
In other news, my Turbo Kit is on its way! Pics and a full photo-diary install for that soon!
Last edited by Diavlo; Sep 20, 2007 at 04:00 AM.
Sep 21, 2007, 12:25 AM
#51
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Those photos of the Evo suspension on a lancer, dont show the full picture for how it will be for me for two reasons.
Firstly, those are Evo wheels. They have larger profile tyres for a 17 than a lancer would use. They use 45 profiles to fully fill the arches, lancers need 40 because our arches are not designed for the extra diameter - this would be making them rub the fenders and adding an un-needed extra half inch to the wheel diameter! No wonder your pics look so harrowing!
Secondly, they are 8 inches wide! Thats yet another reason why they will hit both the wheel well and the fenders.
I dont really like to say I'm a lancer expert or anything, but I do believe that with the correct size wheels for a lancer, the Evo arms wont cause too much trouble.
I will fit them and see as soon as I can. On the other hand, I measured the room each side of my wheels at the front:
Gap at front of front wheel: 2 1/2 inch
Gap at rear of front wheel: 2inch
As comparison I checked my other 3 cars, all Mitsubishis, and all had equal 2 inch gap at front.
Thr track width btw, is achieved because of the offset of the wheel - being 8 inches wide, it sticks out an extra inch and a half over the lancers 6.5 stockers, if that wasnt true, and the arm put the wheel out 1.7 inches extra, then the evos wheels would stick out a whopping 3 inches, as when you put Evo wheels on a ralliart, the Evo wheels look EXACTLY like your pics, sticking out approx 1.5 inches whilst touching the fenders.
And finally, the Evo technical manual says that the extra track length is due to the REAR suspensions, which "Differs from the Lancer" as opposed to the front suspensions which it describes as "Same as LANCER except for Forged Aluminium Amrs, Pillow Ball Endlinks and Inverted Shocks"
It like to put it to you Mark, that the reason you think the arms wont work, is because youve tried to fit an 8 inch wide, 45 profiled tyred wheel, designed for an Evo, to a lancer body which just wont accept it as they are too wide (235 - should be 215 MAX), have the wrong offset (38) and too wide in profile (45 - should be 40 for a 17 to avoid rubbing our arches)
You should have tried a smaller wheel. I'm sorry to go on about this but I really am sure of my research, else I wouldnt have done an engine swap or indeed my current AWD conversion.
The bottom line is, IF the arm does move the wheel forward (which the technical manual says nothing about, it says that occurs in the rear due to the completely different rear suspension), then fine... the smaller diameter wheel will solve it!
Case closed until I've fitted mine, which will hopefully be very soon, I would do it today only we are currently concreting our garage floor!
Firstly, those are Evo wheels. They have larger profile tyres for a 17 than a lancer would use. They use 45 profiles to fully fill the arches, lancers need 40 because our arches are not designed for the extra diameter - this would be making them rub the fenders and adding an un-needed extra half inch to the wheel diameter! No wonder your pics look so harrowing!
Secondly, they are 8 inches wide! Thats yet another reason why they will hit both the wheel well and the fenders.
I dont really like to say I'm a lancer expert or anything, but I do believe that with the correct size wheels for a lancer, the Evo arms wont cause too much trouble.
I will fit them and see as soon as I can. On the other hand, I measured the room each side of my wheels at the front:
Gap at front of front wheel: 2 1/2 inch
Gap at rear of front wheel: 2inch
As comparison I checked my other 3 cars, all Mitsubishis, and all had equal 2 inch gap at front.
Thr track width btw, is achieved because of the offset of the wheel - being 8 inches wide, it sticks out an extra inch and a half over the lancers 6.5 stockers, if that wasnt true, and the arm put the wheel out 1.7 inches extra, then the evos wheels would stick out a whopping 3 inches, as when you put Evo wheels on a ralliart, the Evo wheels look EXACTLY like your pics, sticking out approx 1.5 inches whilst touching the fenders.
And finally, the Evo technical manual says that the extra track length is due to the REAR suspensions, which "Differs from the Lancer" as opposed to the front suspensions which it describes as "Same as LANCER except for Forged Aluminium Amrs, Pillow Ball Endlinks and Inverted Shocks"
It like to put it to you Mark, that the reason you think the arms wont work, is because youve tried to fit an 8 inch wide, 45 profiled tyred wheel, designed for an Evo, to a lancer body which just wont accept it as they are too wide (235 - should be 215 MAX), have the wrong offset (38) and too wide in profile (45 - should be 40 for a 17 to avoid rubbing our arches)
You should have tried a smaller wheel. I'm sorry to go on about this but I really am sure of my research, else I wouldnt have done an engine swap or indeed my current AWD conversion.
The bottom line is, IF the arm does move the wheel forward (which the technical manual says nothing about, it says that occurs in the rear due to the completely different rear suspension), then fine... the smaller diameter wheel will solve it!
Case closed until I've fitted mine, which will hopefully be very soon, I would do it today only we are currently concreting our garage floor!
Last edited by Diavlo; Sep 21, 2007 at 12:40 AM.
Sep 21, 2007, 07:28 AM
#53
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Well if you must know we are concreting our garage floor in 7 strips! Strip one is done! We'll do 4 more this coming week, and 2 the next. Then the car can have its blumin evo arms test fitted!
In other news, Im pestering Rob at RRM for the Stage 2 11psi alky injection map for the turbo kit! I'll probably use the windshield washer tank with it!
In other news, Im pestering Rob at RRM for the Stage 2 11psi alky injection map for the turbo kit! I'll probably use the windshield washer tank with it!
Sep 21, 2007, 04:00 PM
#54
Those photos of the Evo suspension on a lancer, dont show the full picture for how it will be for me for two reasons.
Firstly, those are Evo wheels. They have larger profile tyres for a 17 than a lancer would use. They use 45 profiles to fully fill the arches, lancers need 40 because our arches are not designed for the extra diameter - this would be making them rub the fenders and adding an un-needed extra half inch to the wheel diameter! No wonder your pics look so harrowing!
Secondly, they are 8 inches wide! Thats yet another reason why they will hit both the wheel well and the fenders.
I dont really like to say I'm a lancer expert or anything, but I do believe that with the correct size wheels for a lancer, the Evo arms wont cause too much trouble.
I will fit them and see as soon as I can. On the other hand, I measured the room each side of my wheels at the front:
Gap at front of front wheel: 2 1/2 inch
Gap at rear of front wheel: 2inch
As comparison I checked my other 3 cars, all Mitsubishis, and all had equal 2 inch gap at front.
Thr track width btw, is achieved because of the offset of the wheel - being 8 inches wide, it sticks out an extra inch and a half over the lancers 6.5 stockers, if that wasnt true, and the arm put the wheel out 1.7 inches extra, then the evos wheels would stick out a whopping 3 inches, as when you put Evo wheels on a ralliart, the Evo wheels look EXACTLY like your pics, sticking out approx 1.5 inches whilst touching the fenders.
And finally, the Evo technical manual says that the extra track length is due to the REAR suspensions, which "Differs from the Lancer" as opposed to the front suspensions which it describes as "Same as LANCER except for Forged Aluminium Amrs, Pillow Ball Endlinks and Inverted Shocks"
It like to put it to you Mark, that the reason you think the arms wont work, is because youve tried to fit an 8 inch wide, 45 profiled tyred wheel, designed for an Evo, to a lancer body which just wont accept it as they are too wide (235 - should be 215 MAX), have the wrong offset (38) and too wide in profile (45 - should be 40 for a 17 to avoid rubbing our arches)
You should have tried a smaller wheel. I'm sorry to go on about this but I really am sure of my research, else I wouldnt have done an engine swap or indeed my current AWD conversion.
The bottom line is, IF the arm does move the wheel forward (which the technical manual says nothing about, it says that occurs in the rear due to the completely different rear suspension), then fine... the smaller diameter wheel will solve it!
Case closed until I've fitted mine, which will hopefully be very soon, I would do it today only we are currently concreting our garage floor!
Firstly, those are Evo wheels. They have larger profile tyres for a 17 than a lancer would use. They use 45 profiles to fully fill the arches, lancers need 40 because our arches are not designed for the extra diameter - this would be making them rub the fenders and adding an un-needed extra half inch to the wheel diameter! No wonder your pics look so harrowing!
Secondly, they are 8 inches wide! Thats yet another reason why they will hit both the wheel well and the fenders.
I dont really like to say I'm a lancer expert or anything, but I do believe that with the correct size wheels for a lancer, the Evo arms wont cause too much trouble.
I will fit them and see as soon as I can. On the other hand, I measured the room each side of my wheels at the front:
Gap at front of front wheel: 2 1/2 inch
Gap at rear of front wheel: 2inch
As comparison I checked my other 3 cars, all Mitsubishis, and all had equal 2 inch gap at front.
Thr track width btw, is achieved because of the offset of the wheel - being 8 inches wide, it sticks out an extra inch and a half over the lancers 6.5 stockers, if that wasnt true, and the arm put the wheel out 1.7 inches extra, then the evos wheels would stick out a whopping 3 inches, as when you put Evo wheels on a ralliart, the Evo wheels look EXACTLY like your pics, sticking out approx 1.5 inches whilst touching the fenders.
And finally, the Evo technical manual says that the extra track length is due to the REAR suspensions, which "Differs from the Lancer" as opposed to the front suspensions which it describes as "Same as LANCER except for Forged Aluminium Amrs, Pillow Ball Endlinks and Inverted Shocks"
It like to put it to you Mark, that the reason you think the arms wont work, is because youve tried to fit an 8 inch wide, 45 profiled tyred wheel, designed for an Evo, to a lancer body which just wont accept it as they are too wide (235 - should be 215 MAX), have the wrong offset (38) and too wide in profile (45 - should be 40 for a 17 to avoid rubbing our arches)
You should have tried a smaller wheel. I'm sorry to go on about this but I really am sure of my research, else I wouldnt have done an engine swap or indeed my current AWD conversion.
The bottom line is, IF the arm does move the wheel forward (which the technical manual says nothing about, it says that occurs in the rear due to the completely different rear suspension), then fine... the smaller diameter wheel will solve it!
Case closed until I've fitted mine, which will hopefully be very soon, I would do it today only we are currently concreting our garage floor!
Sep 21, 2007, 10:22 PM
#55
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Your using EVO wheels! Evo wheels WONT fit at all! 8 inches man - they literally touch the fenders with 45 profiles - I've tried them myself on stock lancer arms and they look like your pics.
Im not a genius in mathematics even if I did major in it, but even if the arms move my wheels 1 inch forward I still have room in my fenders with the correct profile, correct offset, correct diameter wheels, something I definitely wouldnt have if I was using Evo wheels like yourself.
Im not a genius in mathematics even if I did major in it, but even if the arms move my wheels 1 inch forward I still have room in my fenders with the correct profile, correct offset, correct diameter wheels, something I definitely wouldnt have if I was using Evo wheels like yourself.
Sep 22, 2007, 02:06 AM
#56
Your using EVO wheels! Evo wheels WONT fit at all! 8 inches man - they literally touch the fenders with 45 profiles - I've tried them myself on stock lancer arms and they look like your pics.
Im not a genius in mathematics even if I did major in it, but even if the arms move my wheels 1 inch forward I still have room in my fenders with the correct profile, correct offset, correct diameter wheels, something I definitely wouldnt have if I was using Evo wheels like yourself.
Im not a genius in mathematics even if I did major in it, but even if the arms move my wheels 1 inch forward I still have room in my fenders with the correct profile, correct offset, correct diameter wheels, something I definitely wouldnt have if I was using Evo wheels like yourself.
I don't have to say anything further. Do your thing. I'm unsuscribing off of this thread.
Sep 22, 2007, 09:29 AM
#57
I got a quick question, how hard would it be to fit evo front spindles to the front, I have a set for my brembo swap and I want to use as much factory as possible. I also was wondering about the problem with the control arm, if I used factory struts from an es or somethign that isn't lowered, would that help the problem any? The other question, if you use the factory lower control arm, which pushs the wheel forwards, do you need an evo spindle? Can you use the Factory spindle? Can some of that difference that pushs the wheel to the front be contributed to the spindle?
Sep 22, 2007, 09:59 AM
#59
Diavlo, with these pictures, I tend to think what you do. Proper sized wheels and tires and maybe not lowering the car as much, and it should work. I just wonder that if you use the control arms, you will have to use the front evo spindles with it. Or maybe the the spindles themselves push the wheel forward, in that case, the arms should work. We should have asked Mark to compare the sizes of the control arms, see if they are the same.
Last edited by Juan Martinez; Sep 22, 2007 at 10:02 AM. Reason: Addon