hackish

Of course I'm a business man. If I were a hobbiest employed in a different domain then I could see donating the $10k+ in hours it takes to properly crack the ECU for the good of the community. I've also worked in the ECU industry for a lot of years and I've done contract work for different OEMs. Knowing how a few manufacturers implement algorithms is very relevant as the majority do things in similar ways. Just wait until you see some of the new stuff coming down the line in the next 2-3 years!

Unfortunately in my situation I've been contracted to do a job and I've been provided with a piggyback in which to do it. I don't even own a RA. While the piggyback Dangerous Dan is promoting may be superior my task is to make what I've got work. I think the Haltech is a capable unit but I just haven't gotten everything ironed out yet. If everyone were working for the "good of the community" then all the secrets Dan and the split second group have figured out on the MAF system and the closed loop would be published. I can't hold that against anyone considering some of the NDA's I've had to sign in the past - secrets are a competitive advantage in this industry.

DangerousDan

iTrader: (8)

they are not my secrets to give out. you are making things appear more than they are. I am not promoting anyones unit over another either; if you were on here for more than 8 posts you would have seen the same excitement I had over splits seconds psc-1(from RRM), perfect powers SMT-6, and now performance motor researches mapecu2

I didn't help split second figure out the MAF circuit, RRM did. Through the first seven emails I was told to contact RRM and was given product information. After much cajoling the 8th email explained the issue I was having with the MAF circuit and I was told, and I quote, "You can do a half assed job of tuning with..." I'm not telling you anything about the MAF circuit because I was asked not to as a condition of the information they were releasing to me. I am working with PMR to get the unit I have already purchased to work with my car; anyone who wants to purchase one of these units in the future will be able to do so, right now they can't because it won't work. I am expanding the community's options, not plugging a particular product.

I haven't put down Haltechs unit, I was merely asking questions and supplying you with information regarding alternatives. If you weren't looking for someones opinion then why did you come online posting about getting the interceptor to work in the first place? Haltech already has a few units working for the RA in Australia (chowetime has the E8 if I remember correctly) so they should be able to help you finalize your installation. It's a VRX in AU though, not an RA. RPW in AU installed chowetimes equipment, so maybe if Haltech offers only limited help you can contact them

And as far as cracking the ECU, I told you that you were under too much assumption. We are much further along then asking one person or another of they know anything about mitsu's ecus. As far as the outlander, I have no idea as I am not regularly on those forums but from my understanding people have already cracked this ECU; they just see it the way you do I do know that the Eclipse 4g69 ECU is not the same as ours, so maybe the outlander is different

I am sending an ECU to tactrix so they can try and get a ROM image off of it; step one. they are doing so because I asked them to, not because I am paying them. the general concensus in the ecuflash/openecu community is that if it's good for one person it must be good for everyone, so we share information, ideas, and even software. ecuflash is open source because no one person can accomplish much of anything compared to the masses. If we do crack the ECU it will be whoever actually dl's the ROM's descision whether or not to share that information with the public. If Colby at Tactrix is successful I am damn near 100% positive he will release that information to at least me, and probably everyone else too. If he merely sends my ECU back with an answer I have not signed an NDA and I am sure he doesn't expect me to keep it quiet; that just doesn't jive with their business model. as soon as I hear something expect a post about it, and then we can all reap the benefits of an open community like the Evolution guys have been doing for a couple of years now.

like I said before, you are a businessman and I can appreciate that. that doesn't mean I have to agree with you nor you with me; it just means we look at this differently.

hackish

There is nothing specifically wrong with the Haltech unit - their software works well and the hardware is quite adaptable but unfortunately at this time in its current config it is unable to do what I want. I've emailed Haltech about this and have not yet received a response. This sucks because I've now got space tied up and there isn't anything I can do about this car.

I'm not quite sure why the car tries so hard to stay in closed loop. I suspect the problem is related to the fact there are larger injectors installed and the MAF signal has been reduced to compensate.

Dumping the ROM of the ECU is no big challenge - if I had an ECU I could destroy I could have the MCU soldered on a test board and have the image dumped in about an hour. The trouble is in disassembling the ROM and understanding it all - starting with the software to initiate the reflash. Anyone who works in this area knows that some skeys are as easy as a simple xor or as complicated as 128 bit cryptography - depends entirely on the OEM..

As it stands I have neither the time nor the funding to do this work. Maybe in a year if it still hasn't been done I'll be interested in looking into it more seriously.

DangerousDan

iTrader: (8)

It will be done by then, the ECU is on the way to Tactrix so they can figure it out I'm pretty confident it won't be an issue. it's not the ROM we are concerned with, that's an eventual step, it's getting it to init with ecuflash so we can download it at all that's the problem. like you said, if all it took was to get the ROM image itself it would have been done already. there is a thread about this already though, so we are beating the wrong horse for this topic.

as far as I know the car doesn't enter open loop (barring warmup) until wide open throttle. you will need to be able to offset your o2 sensor values to tune your closed loop, or defeat an o2 sensor to force open loop.

try RPW in AU. they may or may not help you, but since you are playing with something they are already tuning regularly they may. you are likely trying to accomplish too much with the interceptor; I believe RPW doesn't use the interceptor for their turbo applications for that reason specifically, but I can't speak for them. this ecu is a PITA, especially the MAF circuit eliminating the MAF on this car would provide a world of options, which is why I am trying so hard to get this mapecu2 to work

hackish

On the ECU topic I'd rather not say too much but obtaining the ROM image is one method of determining how the skey is generated.

For the factory ECU I've been having a lot of problems with the open loop/closed loop thing. I have to determine what the dimensions of the LTFT and STFT tables are. It would appear that the open loop fuelling is using somewhat of an extrapolated enrichment from the last 2 fuel trim values. I've seen this sort of thing with other OEM algorithms.

Is removing the MAF necessary? I don't think so. The main advantage is that you would not necessarily have to plumb back the BOV. So far blowing off to atmosphere has not created any serious driveability problems. If I had more access to the Haltech technical support I know how to defeat this problem. The advantage of keeping the MAF is that it does a very good job of meeting the target AFRs despite minor differences from car to car. I've tuned over 100 hondas over the years (all MAP based) and just about every "identical" setup required some fuel adjustments.

Haltech supplied install instructions they apparently developed with RPW but clearly they are for a karman vortex type MAF so I assume the Australian spec car is slightly different. I've asked Haltech about this but have yet to get a response. Hopefully I can get them on the phone late some evening.

-Michael

DangerousDan

iTrader: (8)

that's still up in the air how it will turn out. I have heard many things about the MAF on this car, and have yet to get to the bottom of it altogether. good luck VTA with the BOV and retaining the MAF sensor, everyone who has done so has eperienced some sort of driveability issues unless they pressurized the MAF portion and put it after the BOV anyway.

good luck with your project. I can't say I feel good about helping you as you continue to make comments that suggest I would be working against my goal of helping this community get better as a whole rather than any one persons gain. Like I said, I appreciate your position, but I don't agree with your attitude so unless someone else can offer some insight you're on your own from here.

hackish

I think I've mentioned that I work in the industry. I have done contract work for OEMs and as an embedded systems developer I've done a lot of reverse engineering. There are some things I can't talk about. If I didn't do this for a living and if my living didn't depend on respecting some of the agreements I've signed then I'd be more than happy to help everyone out. As it is I try to give suggestions based on experience where I can.

Getting a MAF to work properly is not as hard as you think. One reason many people have trouble with them stalling and crapping out is that many of the cheaper BOV's leak. You experience a higher vacuum on rundown so if you downshift and use engine braking to slow when you hit the clutch it stalls. Very common problem. The other problem is bogging after a gearshift caused by overfuelling as the turbo re-pressurises the system. I've solved this in a variety of ways. One was to trigger a simple circuit on the MAF signal based on a voltage drop from the MAP. So if you're in boost and suddenly the boost drops it causes a small "sag" in the MAF voltage (as compared to the actual output).

DangerousDan

iTrader: (8)

I'm refering to losing metered air, not fluttering due to quick pressure changes. It's cool though. good luck.

hackish

The quick pressure changes won't be a problem. Many OEMs have systems that use a MAF and turbo. Look at the subarus, evos, volvos, audi/VW out there. Even the old school DSMs used a MAF and turbo. The actual MAF element is not that different between cars and most of them are made by the same company anyway.

DangerousDan

iTrader: (8)

losing metered air is going to throw off what your ECU is expecting, causing an enrichment and bogging. blowing off the atmosphere, while cool sounding, will cause problems unless your MAF is in the pressurized section after the BOV (between BOV and IM.) this has been done, so this MAF will not have a problem being pressurized. recirc BOV to after MAF (between MAF and IM) will prevent this, sans cool sound

the piggyback and ECU should react in plenty of time for quick boost changes or vacuum, unless you are using a cheap hose to go from the mani to your MAP sensor.

cyanide

iTrader: (4)

Hi. I know this thread is old, but I'll ask anyway...
Do you know which specific Split Second model is the one that RRM sells? I've tried to look for the exact model, and I know is a PSC1, but I don't know if it's 001, 002, 003, etc.
Thanks anyways,
cyanide.

Mitsiman

I can't speak about powerplus, but RPW can provide a Haltech Minicetpr unit which we have now fitted to over 20 vehicles in australia, with no issues with tuning (referring natrually aspirated vehicles only).

This is not an officiall Haltec supported applicatin, RPW makes our own modifications to the unit to make it compatible with the 4G69 MAF Sensor.

BrianJ

To my knowledge, the ralliart MAF sensor is the same MAF sensor that the 4G eclipse uses...We've been using the AEM F/IC since it came out over two years ago. I developed a PnP harness for the 4G and it has circuitry built-in for the MAF sensor to work properly. It's been working great for over two years...don't see why it wouldn't work for the RA application as well...

Brian