I think I speak for a number of people here when I say that I wouldn't even CONSIDER the Ralliart if it lacked AWD. The AWD (and for me, the SST) make this car interesting for me.

Also, as far as tuning potential, my understanding is that the direct injection systems on the Cobalt SS and MS3 limit their potential. Anybody have input on that?

 

The only reason the MS3 is outhandling the WRX and Ralliart is the tire brake combinations. Please watch and listen to the reviews carefully. First, they tested with an 08 WRX not an 09. Once all 3 cars are modified to have similar hp and performance tires I am sure the MS3 will not be in first or second place. If price is your only issue get an MS3. Performance award goes to the 09 WRX and IMHO best overall package ( technology + performance ) goes to the Ralliart. Figure out what you are looking for and choose wisely.

 

I hear you ... i am not buying just trying to understand the market...

^^^^that is understandable...

Let me say i do prefer the ralli art of EVO MR especially in looks but the price vs performance is odd to me, yes we can spend more money to get better brakes and tires and rims and intake etc. but since the ralli and MR is already high priced compared to the competition that seems unfair.

 

Well why dont you call mitsubishi and tell them to only make your ralliart fwd maybe they will knock a couple grand for you?...



sorry that doesnt even sound remotely as sarcastic as I wanted it to.

 

I just wish the ralliart was coming with a 6 speed.

Also awd owns - Drove ms3's at length and I don't like them.

It's hard finding a car as nice as my speed6 has been honestly.

 

I hear you but i would tend to call mitsu and ask the why a FWD car is out handling their ralliart with EVO 9 AWD system...

I hope mitsu markets the ralli art well to compete in this market

 

That car looks cool except for those damn ugly back lights arrrgh!!!

Does it have AWD..? or RWD?

 

DI Doesn't limit anything, we have guys over 400+ hp with no problems. DI is actually a huge help once its fully tuned out and upgraded

 

Cause it weighs 400+ more, has inferior tire/brakes.

 

I'm not going to take the PS3 convo further off topic. I was just curious as to his reasonings behind saying Sony messed up too. Still curious, since there are so many PS3-bashers out there that just don't understand.

Anyway, if the Ralliart was FWD with the performance of the MS3 and cheaper but with the current body style... You'd A) have less quality parts. I.e. why do you think the Evo can beat a Ferrari? Because it performs as well as a Ferrari. Does it do ANYTHING else as well as a Ferrari? No, not even close. So you'd get the same effect here, an RA that performs as well as the MS3 for cheaper would have to be cheaper somewhere, even if that just means it uses less materials than the MS3 to build.

Why would it be a bad thing? Did you drive your friend's MS3? Have you driven a decently powered FWD car? Jeremy Clarkson talks about the silliness of FWD in one of the episodes (well, I'm sure many, but he actually explains why it is silly). Granted, before any MS3/Mini-S/TSX/TL-S/SS (turbo and supercharged) owners get their panties in a bunch they are all WONDERFUL handling FWD cars. I have driven a MS3, a turbo and supercharged Mini-S (lots of them, actually almost bought one), two TSXs, three '08 TL-S/ and an old and new Cobalt SS. All of them are FWD, all of them had varying tires (and in the case of the Minis: varying performance mods) but in the end the point is a simple one: They all TURN with the same tires they ACCELERATE with. Again, they do it very well, but no matter what you do you cannot fight the laws of physics and in performance driving the friction circle can be your best friend and your worse nightmare.

The reviews you have read (unless I am mistaken) take A LOT of things into account. And even if the MS3 is still the fastest on a track without the typical review things taken into account. I would guarentee that with average drivers in both the MS3 and the RA (WRX and R32 too) the AWD cars would come out on top. Yeah, you can moderate your use of the friction circle and get great tires, LSDs etc so you don't get much torque steer, but your acceleration/turning part will never be as big as an AWD car.

On top of that, no matter how great your FWD system is, AWD is going to be safer for normal driving.

Point is: If someone says "you can't even tell it's FWD" they're either lying, or not driving their car very hard. You can come close to perfect, the MS3 is an example of that. As are a few of the performance based Minis I have driven.

There is a reason the Evo is AWD, you know...

And I use this to further my point above. While I'm not sure on the current models I know that the main reason the Evo always overcame the STi in past years (at least by as great as it did) was because of the huge difference in tires. There was even an article way back that they put similar decent performance tires on both cars, and the cars were pretty even (as my experience would say they are). If you don't believe tires make a huge difference then please, continue buying the cheapest possible tires for your car from Walmart, they'll perform as well as the expensive ones for sure

 

The point here is that Mazdaspeed 3 IS Mazda's EVO, they don't have anything else out there. The Ralliart is not Mitsubishi's primary performance car here, and they're never going to move it into a position that would further hurt the EVOs current sales. Hopping into an EVO for $6k more isn't a small jump either.

Also as I said, AWD makes a price different, we're talking about a sophisticated AWD system vs a FWD car, it's not going to match up the same price wise.

 

That was a good informative read..

I am by no means a performance driver at all.. as you know i drive a auto (tiptronic) 323i..LOL I was just a passenger in the MS3 and it seemed fun.. i have never been in an EVO.. only in AWD jeeps and such.. but all ur points make sense

 

I re-read it and just realized I didn't explain the "laws of physics/friction circle" Basically the whole point is that you have a circle (G force circles look exactly the same as this, only acceleration and braking are in opposite directions): left and right for turning, and forward for accel and back for braking. You can use your maximum friction (tires vs road surface) to either turn or brake or accelerate at your car's maximum ability (most cars can't accelerate fast enough to break out of the circle, which would be the tires skipping/burnouts/etc).

Anyway if you're turning and you're close to the maximum you can't use much for acceleration if you do that's when you normally get torque steer on FWD cars. Unless you have another set of tires that are hardly being used to turn that can still spin to accelerate I say hardly because obviously your rear tires are still being used, just not nearly as much as the fronts. (This last bit has been about an AWD or RWD car, in case you didn't catch that )

The friction circle is the whole reason there aren't just all one type of car (as far as drivetrain)... Well... that and cost/weight (since we'd all have a fancy sophisticated AWD system ala SH-AWD etc if it were cheap and didn't add weight)

 

I have never, ever, even considered a MS3. Why? Because it's an overpowered FWD car. On a technical track, with elevation changes, tight corners, and off camber sweepers, FWD is not for me. On a straight flat highway, sure...but boring. Shaving off weight and adding more power, stiffer suspension, and better brake/wheel/tire combo will be a great improvement to the RA. I achieve the look I want, and get the goods in the process, all for a couple grand less than a GSR ( BTW, I WANT the SST 'box).

I don't think Mitsu would have been better off trying to compete with the GTI, MS3, Civic Si, Caliber SRT4, or Cobalt SS crowd. The WRX is in a class of its own, and Mitsu is there to take some much needed sales away...

 

Uh....according to this review http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=7103 the Mazdaspeed3 came in last place behind the Ralliart, WRX and Cobalt SS (in that order). Here's my take on it, test drive all four vehicles plus any others you can think of (GTI comes to mind) and decide which one feels right for you. Funnily enough the fastest car might not the best for you just like the cheapest car might not be the best for you. Different people have different driving habits, different needs and different tastes thus the same car will not feel right for everyone.