prophecy11

Okay, I read through the first couple of pages of this thread and then stopped because I thought Car and Driver's list was interesting compared to motor trends. I don't know if someone has already posted this in this thread but if they have then I'm sorry mods!

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._ralliart.html

This should be interesting. You all should go through and read what they have to say about every car. The R/A comes in 6th out of 8 here but if you read, they say that it's so close to call from 1-6 That most places are semi-interchangable.

Anyways, hopefully this is fuel to the flame!

aestival

The Ralliart just has a much better all-wheel control system, which makes it better on slippery or slick surfaces, though as I said, my Ralliart experience is almost all on snow. It's driving I care about, not track times, and the critics are right about the WRX suspension for actual driving. The Ralliart is noticeably worse on bumps than roads in good repair -- neither car is comfortable on bumpy roads.

I don't think that the few Ralliarts sold in 2008 would have had any bearing on the sales numbers, and the base Impreza does not compare with the base Lancer, because the Lancer is FWD. It's all-wheel that's driving Subaru's sales, not how the vehicles look -- there really aren't any alternatives to the base Impreza for a compact AWD car, are there?

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Except that there is no basis for that, both cars are more than capable on slippery surfaces. The tighter suspension on the Ralliart would hurt performance on things like gravel, dirt, etc.
So the only reason Subaru is selling well is AWD? Why now? Why not last year or the year before that? Why have sales of particular models gone through the roof? Your argument does not add up.

dboz

iTrader: (1)

I think the WRX is very smooth and quiet on bumpy roads. It is no Cadillac, but more the adequate for the segment.

aestival

The Mitsubishi control system on the Ralliart is demonstrably better than what Subaru provides on the WRX. I haven't driven a 2009 WRX, but there's no reason from the control specs to expect that Subaru design has magically outdone Mitsubishi this time. Advanced control was more important to me than suspension, or I would own an Evo X MR (never felt the need for yaw control, but occasionally wish the Ralliart had it, naturally).

The butt-ugliness of the WRX is a subjective determination, so even if a whopping 0.1% of the population owned one (it's nowhere near that), then 99.9% might potentially feel that it was the ugliest car they'd ever laid eyes on (for that matter, even some WRX owners may feel it's ugly). Heck, given that otherwise sane people actually bought the Pontiac Aztek, there are some pretty weird tastes out there.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Except that there is no proof of that claim, hell, even reviewers don't make such a claim. I doubt that most on here would notice a difference between the system that Mitsubishi uses and the system that Subaru uses that could be directly attributed to the system, not the engine, the transmission, the brakes, etc. By comparison, I'm sure everyone would notice how they ride differently.
In a market where some manufacturers are absolutely dying, how do people explain Subaru actually doing better? You can try and make the ugly argument all you want but it fails miserably. Obviously a lot of people like the way the cars look otherwise Subaru would be in the same boat as every one else. Moreover, if people wish to make the claim that because only a small percentage of the population owns a car from a relatively small manufacturer, the majority of people think the car/cars is/are ugly, maybe they should look at what they drive first. It's not like the streets are flooded with Evos and Ralliart so by that exact logic, they're hideous correct?

boondoc

iTrader: (4)

Maybe i'm wrong but I think what he means is that the Impreza is not driving Subies sales. Its the other cars in its line-up mainly the Forester and/or Legacy. And in a way yes the AWD is what helps Subie sales especially when u live up north. Down here in SFL no one needs it. Subie sales are up and i congradulate them for it especially since the big dawgs (Honda and Toyota) are down. But its not all because of the Impreza. Mitsu on the other hand is depending on mainly the Lancer and the Outlander right now. Nothin else really sells.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

No it's not all because of the Impreza but obviously the car isn't this hideous troll people are making it out to be when it's still selling fairly well. The AWD argument fails since this isn't 1995, Subaru hardly has a corner on that market. Mazda makes AWD, Ford makes AWD, Audi makes AWD, Mitsubishi makes AWD, etc, if people just wanted AWD, than all manufacturers should be fine, especially if Subarus are as ugly as people make them out to be.

boondoc

iTrader: (4)

Come on man u got to admit the car is ugly. I like the performance but not the looks. As for the AWD argument: Mazda optional, Ford optional, Audi optional, Mitsu optional or Evo/RA, Subie, standard on all cars. There is a difference when ur selling a car. Pay extra or get it standard. Even Subie uses that as their marketing scheme. Safety is key now a days especially when u have a family. When it comes to purchasing a vehicle for most ppl it overrides alot of things. And AWD gives a driver more confidence in the car.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

No I don't, that's like saying I have to admit that Britney Spears is the best singer in the world, it's a subjective matter. I don't think the car is nearly as ugly as everyone makes it out to be. Is it different? Sure, but people have hated literally every iteration of the Impreza and literally every iteration of the Evo until they got used to it.
Actually Subaru does make FWD cars just not in our segment. It's also not like they're giving AWD away, the Impreza isn't a cheap car. Sure all north american Subarus come standard with AWD but you pay for it, so that argument falls flat on its face.

boondoc

iTrader: (4)

I don't hate every iteration of the Impreza. As for this one ok it's not to my liking but it could be worse, i've seen uglier vehicles. Alot of subie sales come from North America so the AWD situation is important in this convo. And if u really look at it the line up here are priced just about the same as their competition so u really don't pay much more than if i was to pick a Legacy over and Accord.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

You may not but it seems like every time a new look is introduced, it's bashed. People hated the 04-05 look until the 06-07 came out, people hated the 06-07 until the 08 came out, etc.
Yes Subarus are priced about the same as their competition, their AWD competition. You can buy the FWD/RWD version for cheaper than the AWD version of the comparable car.

boondoc

iTrader: (4)

I thought most ppl actually like the 04-05. I did. The best since the GC chassis. Look at the base Accord LX ($21,575) and the base Legacy 2.5i ($21,490) as u can see ur really not payin more for AWD. Which helps on Subies part.

EsRt2evo

iTrader: (7)

Because they get uglier every year making the previous year less ugly.

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

Or people just get used to what they see around all the time. The exact same thing has been said of the Lancer and the Evo, sorry to break it to you but a lot of people hated/hate the way the 08/09 Lancer/Ralliart/Evo looks.