your vehicle and situation are completely different, as the concept isnt even close to the same.

The big difference is the intake mod. If you read the thread you would have seen countless times that a. it isnt beneficial on the stock turbo unless its tuned and b. unless it is ONE PARTICULAR INTAKE (which requires a tune to even run) you will run into afr problems.

Its not a hard concept to grasp.

 

Instead of running your mouth why dont you show proof to the OP, he is asking about mods without a tune. If you have proof other than considering your self mechanically inclined then show it. Show him a dyno sheet before and after an intake is added to a stock RA. Otherwise your just an annoying kid whos making his thread go in the wrong direction.

 

Can u run a aftermarket filter with the ap. It says right on cobbs website must be stock intake with stock filter in caps.

 

i have shown proof.

Again, IF you read the thread you would have seen myself and others displaying the fact that intakes untuned on our car have both a. shown little to no advantage over a filter when they run properly, and b. in some cases run the car lean, as the ams and UR intakes have and will.

Running my mouth is relative to someone like you with no actual knowledge on the topic at hand. If he drove an evo 8 you may have value in the conversation, but as you dont, you dont.

I dont need to show him anything, its is common well known knowledge in the community that an intake gives little value over a filter without a tune, on our stock tune, on this car.

Your information of another platform is useless in this particular conversation, which clearly bothers you.

For reference though, just to shut you up, numerous members have seen high 12's and low 13 afrs on the stock tune after installing an intake. Furthermore, those who have installed intakes to gain power havent (outside of the AMS intake which REQUIRES A TUNE).

You can make the cars potential out on the stock turbo with a high flow filter, as has been done time and time again. The stock airbox flows very well, and with the limited capacity of the stock RA turbo, the need for an intake simply isnt there. It offers audible advatages 99 out of 100 times only.

The only and i mean ONLY intake people have ran with no problems is the injen intake. In that particular instance the intake uses a design to pass air through the maf housing that isnt accounted for to lean out the mixture in the car. The intake itself isnt making the power, rather a leaner mixture does. If he wants to go a untuned (rofl) route, then that intake is the way to go.

 

there are some people who do without issues. Much like those who do it on the GTS maps. Each situation will be different, and monitoring is a must, but the likely hood of running lean isnt very large, as the cobb tunes tend to stay on the rich side to begin with.

 

I'll buy that. You could get away with those same mods if you did them on the RA.

The main issue we have is with aftermarket ram air or cold air intakes that change the MAF sensor, which has been shown to throw AFRs way out at WOT, 12-13 like Westbound said. Your motor won't last long running at those numbers, and even though the ecu will change timing to compensate for the knock, you're combustion temps will still be WAY above normal. With a intake that doesn't change the MAF sensor, gains will be minimal.

As far as exhaust + test pipe, some (NOT ALL) cases will run lean, and how lean also depends on many factors. We're not talking the same numbers as with the exhaust, but still lean. A lean condition will run higher temps in the combustion chamber and can shorten the lifespan of the motor.

Obviously, not everyone will see the same results... but knowing that these things are possible is better than not knowing at all.

 

See this is what I was hoping for. There is an actually discussion forming here. People are actually starting to discuss problems and passable solutions. That is all I was asking for. I will probably go with a tune after I feel I have the car broken in correctly. I don't have the time to bolt and test anymore. I am 37 with a wife and an awsome son. I would rather spend my time with him. I just want to have a little fun in my car from time to time when I can find 20 minds to myself once every other month. lol But Just from the posts above I see that there are probably other avenues. I hope this discussion continues. I think that some people will find some surprises as this goes on. I know that a tune is great. But this thread is not for a debate, it is to have an exchange of ideas about "mods without a tune".


One more thing. I can understand people getting a little hot about all of this, but for crap sack, stop ripping on my driving. You 10 year olds know who you are. The fact is I have been fortunate to drive some amazing cars in my life. I can out drive most people in almost anything they want and I will drive a Pinto. lol
No, not in a straight line, but anything else. Chill my brothers. lol

 

Calling the majority 10 yr olds after we started to have "an actually discussion forming here" won't help your cause.

I bet me racing in a ferrari would beat your pinto... all kidding aside if you want the best mod for the smallest amount of trouble... either get new tires if you track, or a tune.

 

ignition cycles has nothing to do with what they're looking for. that only hides datafeed, not the info that shows that you've modded your ecu software. that ****'s permanent... as of right now...

edit, just to clarify: this goes for baseflashes, custom tunes, cobb ap flashes, everything!

 

That is very good advice. The tires cripple the car on a huge scale. I know that factory rubber for the most part sucks on most cars but they really went out of there way with these tires to make them pitiful. I understand why they did it, in order to keep the performance numbers away from the EVOs, but they may have done there job a little to well. BTW Tires are a great performance mod that do not require a tune.

As for my comments int my last post.
"Calling the majority 10 yr olds after we started to have "an actually discussion forming here" won't help your cause"

Just having fun with some of the more, ummmm, uptight posters on here. Over all I like this forum and I think the majority of you guys have a lot to offer.

As for your Ferrari vs. my Pinto? I don't know. Its lime green and bad ***. lol

 

I'm pretty sure that you can run NOS without an ECU re-flash.

 

However, you are going to have to make sure that it doesn't blow the welds on your intake. Then you risk of having to rip apart the block with the mad-scientist and change the piston rings that you will inevitably fry.

 

thanks cant wait for someone to figure out how to find a way around this

 

I think that I am right in saying that if you are worried about things like this, you probably shouldn't be modifying your car.

 

Then I would recommend you use the search feature! All this had already been discussed in the forum. People have installed exhaust, test pipes, etc... Dyno'ed it. Installed intakes, dyno'ed it. Shared their experiences. The Ralliart has been on the market for almost two years now and a lot of people have experimented on it.

This thread looks like the type of conversation I used to have with a friend of mine. He thought (up to very recently) that carburators were the way to go for modifying a car (as opposed to FI). He started modifying cars at a time where FI was expensive and more complicated to setup.

There once was a time where tuning (by tuning I mean reprogramming, reflashing, etc...) a car was complicated and often required replacing the car computer by an aftermarket unit (AEM, etc...).

Now, FI is available in all car on the market and in a very advanced form. My friend realised than FI is the way to go. You know, reflashing your ECU is the way to go. It's now cheap and easy. For sure, like anything, you need to know what you're doing and need to be careful (since your are actually changing the internal operation of the engine).

Some very knowledgeable member of this forum have taken the time to inform you of the advantage of tuning and the risks of not doing so on this specific car.

You might be afraid of loosing you warranty by reflashing your ECU. But you have to realize that if you do modification without realizing the long term impact and then, after 30K miles your engine runs like craps and you go to Mitsubishi to have it fixed under warranty. They will most probably hold the exact same speech as we did... Exhaust, test pipe, intake, etc... change the condition of operation of your engine in a way that the ECU is not built to compensate.

You mentionned a few times that the ECU should be able to compensate. But the programming of the ECU has not been made to compensate for modification. It has been programmed to compensate for the progressive degradation of the different components of your car. If you drill a hole in your down pipe, the ECU won't compensate, it will throw an error code. This is because your exhaust did not degradate, it is broken. Hopefully, in that specific case, the ECU detects it and warn you so you can have someone fix it.

As for the potential risk of tuning. Many members of this forum have been running the Free GST Basemap for about a year now. Some of them for over 20K Miles. You can search on the forum to see if people had issues with this tune and based on this search decide if it is sage enough for you. Lots of other member went to a professionnal tuner.

Hum, and to finish... Maybe a personal opinion. Modifying a car is really fun and involve some risks. If you are so afraid of loosing your warranty, keep this car stock, it's a really nice daily driver as it is right now. And get another maybe 5 or 7 years old car that you will tune. Plus, having many cars makes you less dependable on your modified car. But that's personnal opinion.. I understand for some people, the Ralliart is all they can afford. And I'm happy for them that they can actually get one (since there is no significantly cheaper fun cars...).


But, if you decide to go the tuning-less route, please keep us posted on your result. I'd be happy for you if you can prove us wrong and come here over time confirm everything is still running fine!