Mods without tune?
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Russ
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I don't think there is anything wrong with me wanting to mod and keep my warranty without having to sit in my car a start and shut off my car 50 TIMES. Its a little creepy to the neighbors when you do stuff like that. Besides there doesn't seem to be any definitive answer to whether or not Mitsu techs can see a tune, even if you pull it. Is there anyone on here that works as a mechanic for Mitsu that can clear this up. Also please don't tell me not to mod my car. I don't tell you what to do with yours. Its getting a little old.
So what some of you guys are saying is that there is no other way to make the necessary adjustments to timing, fuel, air etc....... except to tap into the ECU? Thats weird, I have had many cars that use an ECU and I have modded them with pretty decent results and never had to touch the ECU.
I do appreciate the advise you guys have given me. I may tune I may not. But I think I have heard enough to know that the no tune route is an option, and can be done. Its not easy but its reversible as far as Mitsu knows. lol
So what some of you guys are saying is that there is no other way to make the necessary adjustments to timing, fuel, air etc....... except to tap into the ECU? Thats weird, I have had many cars that use an ECU and I have modded them with pretty decent results and never had to touch the ECU.
I do appreciate the advise you guys have given me. I may tune I may not. But I think I have heard enough to know that the no tune route is an option, and can be done. Its not easy but its reversible as far as Mitsu knows. lol
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I don't think there is anything wrong with me wanting to mod and keep my warranty without having to sit in my car a start and shut off my car 50 TIMES. Its a little creepy to the neighbors when you do stuff like that. Besides there doesn't seem to be any definitive answer to whether or not Mitsu techs can see a tune, even if you pull it. Is there anyone on here that works as a mechanic for Mitsu that can clear this up. Also please don't tell me not to mod my car. I don't tell you what to do with yours. Its getting a little old.
So what some of you guys are saying is that there is no other way to make the necessary adjustments to timing, fuel, air etc....... except to tap into the ECU? Thats weird, I have had many cars that use an ECU and I have modded them with pretty decent results and never had to touch the ECU.
I do appreciate the advise you guys have given me. I may tune I may not. But I think I have heard enough to know that the no tune route is an option, and can be done. Its not easy but its reversible as far as Mitsu knows. lol
So what some of you guys are saying is that there is no other way to make the necessary adjustments to timing, fuel, air etc....... except to tap into the ECU? Thats weird, I have had many cars that use an ECU and I have modded them with pretty decent results and never had to touch the ECU.
I do appreciate the advise you guys have given me. I may tune I may not. But I think I have heard enough to know that the no tune route is an option, and can be done. Its not easy but its reversible as far as Mitsu knows. lol
you are starting to really get on my nerves, im not sure if its stupidity or ignorance that fuels you and what you say but it needs to stop.
OH WOW you've been able to adjust timing and fuel trims before on a car without touching the ecu? really? are you sure? cause its not possible. The only workaround is a piggy back (emanage etc) which is a cheap ghetto way of tuning a car. The main reason piggy's are used is because the tuning software isnt avaliable reaidly like it is for our platform. Honestly, you have the stupidest arguments.
A vehicle which is CONTROLLED via the ecu/pcm unit needs to be altered via that device, weather you tap in and trick it (piggy back) or manual change parameters in the software yourself (tune)
You cant hit the tire with a hammer, or put larger jets on the carb on a vehicle in 2011 and expect it to make more power.
simply put, 30 people have told you.
FILTER
CAT BACK
INTERCOOLER
TEST PIPE (IFFY)
THATS IT.
no fuel trims, no timing, boost can be changed with a boost controller, but enjoy you dead car if you do. Nothing more. End of story.
The whole driving force for your questions is this. "hey gaiis, so like, how does i makes a race cahz without mitsubooshi no'n if i blowd it up?"
When really your questions should be " hey guys, do you know a reputable tuner near me i could go speak with about tuning my car, and what options i have in reversing the tune if need be?"
Will you run into engine issues. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. you wont. this engine can handle 500 whp stock. get over yourself.
Will you run into transmission issues. NOOOOOOOOOO, not unless you drive like a jackass, in which case its destined for failure weather you tune or not.
Is there anything else to worry about? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. any other issue, brakes, suspension, body, interior, exterior, anything else besides the power train is NOT effected warranty wise or otherwise by a power mod or tune. EVEN THEN the likelihood is little to none.
honestly, you're 37, do some research, make a decision, and more on. Its been 2 days of yapping.
Last edited by Westbound&down; Jan 17, 2011 at 08:49 PM.
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Let me dissect Stig013's argument for a minute: The ECU on the Ralliart is even more advanced and governs more systems than the ECU on a 15 year old car. He could do major bolt-on modifications to said 15 year old car without a tune and see power gains, ergo he should be able to do similar bolt-on modifications to the Ralliart without a tune and see power gains.
The breakdown in the logic of this argument, Stig013, is that, since the Ralliart's ECU governs the car's functions even more exactingly, the ECU will actually COMPENSATE for modifications you make. The car is designed to function within certain parameters, and the ECU is programmed to maintain that balance. If you change something, the ECU will do whatever it can to compensate and return the car to its proper functioning form. If you do something to "fool" the ECU, it won't be able to properly compensate, and you could end up breaking something. If you change something so radically that the ECU can't compensate for it, it will just shut the car down, throw a CEL, etc.
In other words, no matter what you do, the car is likely to compensate UNLESS you get a tune. Scared of voiding your warranty? Don't mod, period. If you want to add bolt-ons without a tune, do it, but listen to the people who know about which mods are safe. If you actually want the mods to add power (and keep that power), get a tune.
On a side note, so you own a '97 GST, eh? Plenty of bolt-ons? Lots of power? No need for a "tune"? Ever have backfiring issues? Stalling issues? If so, surely there must have been a solution...
Ever hear of this? http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=811
#65
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ignition cycles has nothing to do with what they're looking for. that only hides datafeed, not the info that shows that you've modded your ecu software. that ****'s permanent... as of right now...
edit, just to clarify: this goes for baseflashes, custom tunes, cobb ap flashes, everything!
edit, just to clarify: this goes for baseflashes, custom tunes, cobb ap flashes, everything!
the other thing to note is that while i can pull these numbers out of the computer with our scan tool; without the mitsubishi tech support database, as of right now i have no idea if the numbers i'm reading are original or modified. i would need to communicate the findings to techline and have them advise me as to whether everything matches up as original in their database or if it has, in fact, been modified.
so, to clear up a few worries, no dealership can tell, on their own, if the car has been tuned just by plugging it in. period. this means if you're going in for simple work, basic recall work, or anything that's not going to cost the dealership crazy money where they have to get authorization to perform repairs, they're probably not going to bother trying to figure out if you're tuned or not because it's just not worth the time and effort to deal with techline if its not a pressing or related issue. although, as i have said before, in another recent thread actually, honesty is your best policy when it comes to the dealership because i promise you a good relationship with your service dept. will net you a better end result, especially when you're out of warranty and need some help with something a local shop can't do.
please read:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/8970475-post5.html
#67
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lol wow this has gotten out of hand. Stig013... you have your answers. Whether you accept them or not is really up to you.
A mod needs to shut down this thread.
A mod needs to shut down this thread.
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03chi-town02
Thanks for the info. It is greatly appreciated and makes good sense. I have a buzzing noise coming from my radio. My service dept is installing a new one next week. I am going to just tell them what I am thinking of doing, i.e. a tune. I am sure they will be very reasonable. My family and I have bought 9 cars from this auto group over the years never had a problem, even with the modded cars I have brought in for service.
I started this thread for two reasons.
1. To actually see what the deal was with modding and not touching the ECU. Like I said before I don't think it has been discussed all that much. While every other thread is about a tune. Which is fine, I just like to be thorough.
2. Because I knew this would be a touchy subject with a lot of guys. I wanted to gauge the response to get an idea of how knowledgeable and how helpful the posters on here will be as time goes on and I need help. I got my answer. You guys are all pretty cool you seem to definitely know your s***. I look forward to future posts. And I thank you guys in advance for your responses. This car is a great platform and I look forward to having fun with it. If I blow it up in the process, that will be fun too......
Westbound&down. You need therapy. I am glad I got to you. You are either a 22 year old kid that just hasn't learned how to interact with people yet, or, you are much older. In which case you are just an A H*** because you should know better by now. You are not as smart as you think. Squelching other peoples thoughts and ideas just because they don't mirror your own is not a good way to exchange ideas and impart your knowledge.
Now get pissed at me punch your screen.......... Grow up..
Moderator you can close this thread now if you like. Thanks. And thanks to everyone else for responding to this post.
Thanks for the info. It is greatly appreciated and makes good sense. I have a buzzing noise coming from my radio. My service dept is installing a new one next week. I am going to just tell them what I am thinking of doing, i.e. a tune. I am sure they will be very reasonable. My family and I have bought 9 cars from this auto group over the years never had a problem, even with the modded cars I have brought in for service.
I started this thread for two reasons.
1. To actually see what the deal was with modding and not touching the ECU. Like I said before I don't think it has been discussed all that much. While every other thread is about a tune. Which is fine, I just like to be thorough.
2. Because I knew this would be a touchy subject with a lot of guys. I wanted to gauge the response to get an idea of how knowledgeable and how helpful the posters on here will be as time goes on and I need help. I got my answer. You guys are all pretty cool you seem to definitely know your s***. I look forward to future posts. And I thank you guys in advance for your responses. This car is a great platform and I look forward to having fun with it. If I blow it up in the process, that will be fun too......
Westbound&down. You need therapy. I am glad I got to you. You are either a 22 year old kid that just hasn't learned how to interact with people yet, or, you are much older. In which case you are just an A H*** because you should know better by now. You are not as smart as you think. Squelching other peoples thoughts and ideas just because they don't mirror your own is not a good way to exchange ideas and impart your knowledge.
Now get pissed at me punch your screen.......... Grow up..
Moderator you can close this thread now if you like. Thanks. And thanks to everyone else for responding to this post.
#69
No need to fight about who's better who's not... This forum was made to gain knowledge and info about our cars... We're all car enthusiast and we love our cars... Please take it easy on words you type in here...
#70
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avaliable, reaidly, weather (its whether)....I think Westbound needs to learn how to spell before going on these rants that he has. Dude chill out, Stig had questions about mods w/o tune so either answer his question about that or give him a good explanation about how a tune works & helps instead of getting all over this case!!
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avaliable, reaidly, weather (its whether)....I think Westbound needs to learn how to spell before going on these rants that he has. Dude chill out, Stig had questions about mods w/o tune so either answer his question about that or give him a good explanation about how a tune works & helps instead of getting all over this case!!
Many people have repeated a list a mods that can "safely" be put on that car and pointed the possible issues that could be encountered.
We have many times rephrased our arguments and given more details about points that were supposed to be known stuff if the OP had read thru the forum.
It seamed clear that the OP was interested in performance mods. All the reasonably safe (considering he wouldn't get a tune) performance mods have been listed, including some totally useless stuff (i.e.: better BOV since the stock BOV is sufficient for the stock pressure and any stronger BOV won't bring any gain unless boost pressure is increased).
We even mentionned ways to validate the impact of the mentionned mods to ensure long term reliability (the gauges) and their possible impact on the electrical system warranty. Explaining that the impact of installing those gauges might potential have as much of an impact on the warranty as the reflash of the ECU.
I could keep going on everything that was covered, but I recommend that you simply read the thread.
Also, I find it really immature to try to invalidate someone's arguments by pointing a few typos and one error. First of all, there are probably a lot of people with english as the secondary or third languages. We use english because this is the best approach and do our best to spell correctly. I would like to see you argue with us in French, Spanish, German, arabic languages, Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese and so on.
If you want to attack Westbound do it on the technical aspect, chanllenge the validity of what he say if you think he is wrong and can prove it. But this attack was weak. This is blatant disrespect of another member.
I'd also like to bring up that in many posts Stig013 mentionned he was considering the possibility of going for a tune. Thus our argumentation was not pointless and Stig013 might prove it was entirely justified.
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So what some of you guys are saying is that there is no other way to make the necessary adjustments to timing, fuel, air etc....... except to tap into the ECU? Thats weird, I have had many cars that use an ECU and I have modded them with pretty decent results and never had to touch the ECU.
I do appreciate the advise you guys have given me. I may tune I may not. But I think I have heard enough to know that the no tune route is an option, and can be done. Its not easy but its reversible as far as Mitsu knows. lol
I do appreciate the advise you guys have given me. I may tune I may not. But I think I have heard enough to know that the no tune route is an option, and can be done. Its not easy but its reversible as far as Mitsu knows. lol
I'll give you a bit more info on our ECU (also goes for ECUs on other cars that are currently available and are forced induction/fuel injected). The ECU that Mitsu developed is specifically designed to run within the parameters of the stock setup. It has a very small margin for adjustment, because the parts are designed to be as low-wear as possible. Older ECUs had larger margins for adjustment, but the newer computers are much more specific.
Any major modification you might make will need to be tuned for because the ECU can't compensate for it, unlike an old Honda where any dumb 16 year old can throw a intake an exhaust on it and then drive people nuts saying my VTEC goes BWAAAAAAH!!!! (I rant about those because there's a damned infestation in my poor city. "I think I'm going to put a supercharger in my Civic" "I'm gonna smoke all those cars next year when I put NOS in my Sunfire" "I'm gonna build a turbo kit for my Optra because I saw someone do it online somewhere!")
But I digress.
You can make air/fuel adjustments without tapping into the ECU, such as larger injectors for adding fuel or running an AMS air intake to get more air, but doing these things without tuning for them would be like hunting for a rabbit with an stealth bomber. Sure, those new injectors will give you more fuel, but good luck getting your car to idle. Kind of like saying you got your rabbit, at the expense of five hundred square miles of burning forest.
I suppose what I'm trying to tell you is that the air/fuel maps are affected by too many variables (boost, temp, rpm, mivec, etc) to be able to be properly adjusted without tapping into the ECU. I think that even if you channeled your inner MacGyver, and found a way to somehow compensate for all of those things without tapping into the ECU, you would be up many long nights trying to get them all to work together properly. I wouldn't want to go there, but if someone pulled it off they should win an award of some kind.
#73
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03chi-town02
Thanks for the info. It is greatly appreciated and makes good sense. I have a buzzing noise coming from my radio. My service dept is installing a new one next week. I am going to just tell them what I am thinking of doing, i.e. a tune. I am sure they will be very reasonable. My family and I have bought 9 cars from this auto group over the years never had a problem, even with the modded cars I have brought in for service.
I started this thread for two reasons.
1. To actually see what the deal was with modding and not touching the ECU. Like I said before I don't think it has been discussed all that much. While every other thread is about a tune. Which is fine, I just like to be thorough.
2. Because I knew this would be a touchy subject with a lot of guys. I wanted to gauge the response to get an idea of how knowledgeable and how helpful the posters on here will be as time goes on and I need help. I got my answer. You guys are all pretty cool you seem to definitely know your s***. I look forward to future posts. And I thank you guys in advance for your responses. This car is a great platform and I look forward to having fun with it. If I blow it up in the process, that will be fun too......
Westbound&down. You need therapy. I am glad I got to you. You are either a 22 year old kid that just hasn't learned how to interact with people yet, or, you are much older. In which case you are just an A H*** because you should know better by now. You are not as smart as you think. Squelching other peoples thoughts and ideas just because they don't mirror your own is not a good way to exchange ideas and impart your knowledge.
Now get pissed at me punch your screen.......... Grow up..
Moderator you can close this thread now if you like. Thanks. And thanks to everyone else for responding to this post.
Thanks for the info. It is greatly appreciated and makes good sense. I have a buzzing noise coming from my radio. My service dept is installing a new one next week. I am going to just tell them what I am thinking of doing, i.e. a tune. I am sure they will be very reasonable. My family and I have bought 9 cars from this auto group over the years never had a problem, even with the modded cars I have brought in for service.
I started this thread for two reasons.
1. To actually see what the deal was with modding and not touching the ECU. Like I said before I don't think it has been discussed all that much. While every other thread is about a tune. Which is fine, I just like to be thorough.
2. Because I knew this would be a touchy subject with a lot of guys. I wanted to gauge the response to get an idea of how knowledgeable and how helpful the posters on here will be as time goes on and I need help. I got my answer. You guys are all pretty cool you seem to definitely know your s***. I look forward to future posts. And I thank you guys in advance for your responses. This car is a great platform and I look forward to having fun with it. If I blow it up in the process, that will be fun too......
Westbound&down. You need therapy. I am glad I got to you. You are either a 22 year old kid that just hasn't learned how to interact with people yet, or, you are much older. In which case you are just an A H*** because you should know better by now. You are not as smart as you think. Squelching other peoples thoughts and ideas just because they don't mirror your own is not a good way to exchange ideas and impart your knowledge.
Now get pissed at me punch your screen.......... Grow up..
Moderator you can close this thread now if you like. Thanks. And thanks to everyone else for responding to this post.
I havent "squelched" anything. You asked for advice and onipions, then once myself and others gave you facts and options you decided it was best to call us liars, and give us reasons you believed what we were saying wasnt true.
Fact of the matter is stig, you think you know car through and through because your 37, and have owned a handful. Congrats. The simple fact that you have avoided modding correctly and thuroughly in the past makes it evident you have no clue at all. You've clearly never owned a turbo vehicle, or one with a maf. You have little knowledge of how or when you change fuel and boost parameters, and you think that its a self maintaining closed system which it isnt.
You have more to learn then most new comers do because of all the bad habits and misinformation you need to forget before you can begin to get a clue.
#74
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It is expected that someone reads the previous posts and understand the conversation before posting anything. We have answered his questions and brought argument explaining why we strongly recommend getting a tune.
Many people have repeated a list a mods that can "safely" be put on that car and pointed the possible issues that could be encountered.
We have many times rephrased our arguments and given more details about points that were supposed to be known stuff if the OP had read thru the forum.
It seamed clear that the OP was interested in performance mods. All the reasonably safe (considering he wouldn't get a tune) performance mods have been listed, including some totally useless stuff (i.e.: better BOV since the stock BOV is sufficient for the stock pressure and any stronger BOV won't bring any gain unless boost pressure is increased).
We even mentionned ways to validate the impact of the mentionned mods to ensure long term reliability (the gauges) and their possible impact on the electrical system warranty. Explaining that the impact of installing those gauges might potential have as much of an impact on the warranty as the reflash of the ECU.
I could keep going on everything that was covered, but I recommend that you simply read the thread.
Also, I find it really immature to try to invalidate someone's arguments by pointing a few typos and one error. First of all, there are probably a lot of people with english as the secondary or third languages. We use english because this is the best approach and do our best to spell correctly. I would like to see you argue with us in French, Spanish, German, arabic languages, Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese and so on.
If you want to attack Westbound do it on the technical aspect, chanllenge the validity of what he say if you think he is wrong and can prove it. But this attack was weak. This is blatant disrespect of another member.
I'd also like to bring up that in many posts Stig013 mentionned he was considering the possibility of going for a tune. Thus our argumentation was not pointless and Stig013 might prove it was entirely justified.
Many people have repeated a list a mods that can "safely" be put on that car and pointed the possible issues that could be encountered.
We have many times rephrased our arguments and given more details about points that were supposed to be known stuff if the OP had read thru the forum.
It seamed clear that the OP was interested in performance mods. All the reasonably safe (considering he wouldn't get a tune) performance mods have been listed, including some totally useless stuff (i.e.: better BOV since the stock BOV is sufficient for the stock pressure and any stronger BOV won't bring any gain unless boost pressure is increased).
We even mentionned ways to validate the impact of the mentionned mods to ensure long term reliability (the gauges) and their possible impact on the electrical system warranty. Explaining that the impact of installing those gauges might potential have as much of an impact on the warranty as the reflash of the ECU.
I could keep going on everything that was covered, but I recommend that you simply read the thread.
Also, I find it really immature to try to invalidate someone's arguments by pointing a few typos and one error. First of all, there are probably a lot of people with english as the secondary or third languages. We use english because this is the best approach and do our best to spell correctly. I would like to see you argue with us in French, Spanish, German, arabic languages, Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese and so on.
If you want to attack Westbound do it on the technical aspect, chanllenge the validity of what he say if you think he is wrong and can prove it. But this attack was weak. This is blatant disrespect of another member.
I'd also like to bring up that in many posts Stig013 mentionned he was considering the possibility of going for a tune. Thus our argumentation was not pointless and Stig013 might prove it was entirely justified.
#75
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Well, if it makes anyone feel better, it has only been in the last 100 years or so that spelling standards have become as rigid as they are today. People spelled phonetically, and the meaning/nuance of the words were derived through context.
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