evo_soul

while he does own a evo, Stance does make an lancer 2008 coilover which is compatible for the Ralliart. Stances coilover have enjoyed a favorable status / reputation.



http://stance-usa.com/sus/products/coilovers/grplus

sstevojr

iTrader: (7)

sigh, more of the same patchwork being done......
They keep telling us the coilovers for 08+ Lancer will work; sure it bolts up. But they are designed for a car 600lbs lighter. How hard can it be to take the existing design, corner weight, and then re-adjust valving and springs?!?!
Are you listening coilover companies, while it's nice that you are giving us "options" how about the RIGHT options. And you can't really say "well the R&D cost....."; the Lancer designed ones WILL work with a little tweaking:
1) Longer piston for the strut; the current Lancer versions are too short by about 2" due to car being heavier. When sitting under full weight, there is only 1.5" of travel left, no wonder my rears bottom out on...well...anything
2) Re-valve for a stiffer spring to accommodation the extra weight

Ok, I'm getting myself all worked up again; but seriously, come on! We're talking about 3500 vs 2900 curb weight; that's what 20% heavier, it's no rocket science....

evo_soul

For KW stuff, like spring rates, its best to ask them directly.

I have tested out 3 available lancer coilovers and since the Lancer and Ralliart have almost the same suspension setup, I would highly recommend HSD coilovers because of their spring rates and valving bias. They come off being the most comfortable and street + track capable coilover I have experienced so far. With the number one feature being durability.

The Tein Flex kit may be something you want to consider. I think its still a twin two coilover design, but the build quality is very high and you have electronic dampening controller compatibility to modify on the fly.

BC racing may be another option to consider. They have one of the best post warranty programs out there in the even of failures.



When asked, HSD mentioned that they considered the weight changes design the kit with that different in mind.

To answer your question as to why companies slap the Lancer and the Ralliart together.... When I asked a lot of them out there... it comes down to numbers.

Not many companies take the Ralliart seriously.... the numbers of project sales is not very high. To them it doesnt make logical sense to make two separate coilovers and compete in two market spaces. And if you think about it makes sense. Your already fighting over a small market space when you look at both the lancer and ralliart together. The more companies that enter this space, the less logical it is to make two separate kits. You would lose money, and be stuck with coilovers on the shelf.

sstevojr

iTrader: (7)

It would cost them all of $500 in R&D to set-up a Ralliart specific coilover; if projected sales is at least 3 units they have already paid off R&D costs, 4 or more and they are profitable. I just don't see this being a realistic excuse for the lack of development....

evo_soul

I am not trying to be a hard *** with the devils advocate, but if I gave you 100,000 dollars tomorrow and you were in the industry. You would put every single R&D penny in what you think will make you profit. That would not be the Ralliart. It would more likely be the Ford Focus, Genesis, Mazda 2, Lexus IS and the newere one. I am pulling abstract examples, but anything with better projections of growth. Prime example would be the Veloster from hyundai.

Lets face it and be completely honest, Lancer sales have moved backwards, 2008 was a great year, then the bad economy hit, and sales moved backwards. Mitsubishi hasnt had the marketing focus on the Lancer after 2010. The focus is the Outlander and Outlander sport, The EVO has gotten almost no love and with speculation or the hint of it in the water about the EVO being discontinued makes someone with a 100,000 dollars of R&D money think twice about investing in the Mitsubishi Brand. I have said it for 4 years directly to Mitsubishi Japan HQ, you need the aftermarket's support. They were confident they didnt.... Fast forward to today. And its pretty easy to see why R&D dollars are not flowing into Mitsubishi vehicles. It's something that upsets me to see. Cause everyone bottom up believes in the brand the cars. But there is sometimes things lost and translation from the top down.

Latest example would be the great effort of Mitsubishi to implement AWD into the lancer. But didnt go far enough to make it standard, and did not make a 5 speed manual version. Or why the Ralliart does not have a 5 speed transmission. I still stand by my projections. Mitsubishi would likely sell 3 times the amount of AWD lancers and 5 times the amount of Ralliart. But.... they didnt... yet...

Bring my point full circle. The companies who did make coilover kits for the Lancer / Ralliart. Have not made money. The prospects to actual make money are higher than you think. R&D >>> Production cost >>> Sales force >>> Marketing >>>Warranty >>> PROFIT / LOSS based on total sales. I do not think any company making lancer coilovers is making profit on that lancer kit. making a Ralliart kit is even more of a loss. Because your chance a racer demographic which already has head winds against it.

This would change tomorrow if Mitsubishi changed its stance on aftermarket.

Sorry for the long 2 cents. No one would want this more than me. I have said all this, because I have been very fortunate to interview and speak with a lot of the engineers and company founders that make things happen. And generally the situation in the entire aftermarket is very very challenging. The fact that we all see HKS leave north america is really only the tip of the ice berg. A lot of companies have closed their doors or had to restruction. I think ARK went bust. Greddy restructured in Japan and made a comeback. But trust me... thing are rough.

I am greatful for the fact that companies like Tein, HSD, Stance, BC Racing have released coilovers and done their best to fill that void. But I do not see more entering the market space at this time.

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

They have had a AWD Lancer since 2007. It's not a new effort at all.

evo_soul

The Japan spec and USA spec are different until 2012.
Japan had all types of stuff before we did in North America.
Galant Fortis

What I meant was, they finally brought the AWD here to North America. But..... technically only went half way, because its only available on one transmission type, and one trim level.

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

Capt. Obvious is Capt. Obvious.

Speaking of Obvious. The Galant Fortis is the Lancer.

I imagine the first year of the AWD Lancer in NA is a test push. Hence the one trans/trim. Less resource/finance risk.

sstevojr

iTrader: (7)

Your not looking at the numbers correctly. To decide if investing in a new line-up of products is worth while, you DON'T take into consider large capital expenditures because the machinery is already there. You only measure the margin cost to produce these new Ralliart specific parts. The machinery to produce these parts was purchased a long time ago, so from a Financing perspective you don't include this in your model; conversely, in the Accounting world you do allocate the portion that is being used if/when products are being made.
What I'm trying to say is that arguing there is a 'larger R&D outlay associated with the development of Ralliart specific parts' is totally bogus; the ONLY time this would come into play is for a NEW company looking to enter this market (which we know there is not enough demand to bring them in). What I'm suggesting is that the companies who ALREADY have Lancer specific parts should look at the Marginal Cost of slight changes in tooling and design (i.e. what it would cost to have someone tweak your CAD design, and the added cost of having small aspects of the existing product re-vamped). So long as the Marginal Profit from selling these products is larger than the Marginal Cost to make them, then production should be done; that is Economics/Finance 101. And hearing companies state otherwise is absurd.

evo_soul

I hear what your saying, but the model your using is a bit unrealistic. I dont mean it in a negative way. Heck, no one wants this more than me. Cause I have asked, but its just not economical. I understand your logic, but unless your making a high performance competition kit, it doesn't make much sense. The 600 pound difference sounds like a lot. But the springs and shock can be optimized for both the Lancer and the Ralliart weight differences with relative ease. Remember its 600 pounds divided over 4 corners.

After further talks with HSD and Tein on the manufacturing side of things... suspension is far more complicated than any other component on a car. So many things can go wrong, and the range of performance and feedback can be subjective. What is too soft for one, may be too hard for another. The other problem a manufacturer faces is the liability of customer stupidity. What does that mean?

One customer may order the coilover that is not intended for his vehicle because he thinks based on online opinions or hear say that the Ralliart coilover is better for his Lancer. Or even less likely, the opposite situation. Asking the engineers themselves, the difference between the kit isnt much if the focus is daily driving and moderate aggressive applications.

When asking HSD, the lancer and ralliart are very similar minus the weight difference. Ratios are compliant and they mentioned that. Anyone with coilover setup experience and competition experience can dial in the coilover to achieve maximum performance. A change in the coilover is not needed.

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

Both you guys are saying the same thing I think.

One of you sounds like you are always trying to sell us something, the other sounds like a true enthusiast.

03chi-town0Z

iTrader: (7)

Agreed, lol.

I think the best thing, in our favor as a niche-market, is that the companies like borg-chuan or hot bits are willing to work with us to make kits with adjustable damping and then allow purchasers to choose individually customizable spring rates and then they properly adjust the valving to match those spring rates.

I'm no expert in this area, as suspension is something I, myself, am still learning much about, but it seems that with the lack of a company willing to make a specific kit with Ralliart-specific adjustments (like a longer stroke to accommodate the added weight of the RA) these seem to be our best options and very acceptable compromises considering their price point.

sstevojr

iTrader: (7)

I was checking out that DT2, hmmmm

evo_soul

lol thanks, I think lol

http://www.worksevo.com/store/produc...oducts_id=1739

great competition grade coilover for sure If they make that for the ralliart I would buy to compete for sure

adog

iTrader: (7)

How come no one ever talks about the works ralliart coilovers? Does any one have them? I think that those are the only Ralliart specific coilovers aren't they. I can't put up a link cuz I'm on my phone but if you look up ralliart work/ast coilovers you get the evom page that talks about them