Conical intakes BEWARE! TTP tunes a 2009 Ralliart with fueling problems from intake!
Jul 22, 2009, 12:11 AM
#16
It depends on the intake, specifically the size of the MAF pipe housing. The AEM, Injen, and HKS (piece of crap BTW) lean out the car but not a lot to be dangerous like this one that TTP posted about. I do not know about the AMS. We be logging a car soon that has it and will report back.
Jul 22, 2009, 06:04 AM
#18
WTF!?...ok really confused..so on a ralliart the AMS intake is a no no..but on the X it's safe...I've heard from AMS that it was safe to run the intake on my car untuned...so...I guess I should take it back off..? If this is the case..then why do companies like ETS, AMS, and Buschur say you can run these things untuned on an X..please help me understand..alot of people can have severe engine damage if this is the case...
Jul 22, 2009, 06:07 AM
#19
WTF!?...ok really confused..so on a ralliart the AMS intake is a no no..but on the X it's safe...I've heard from AMS that it was safe to run the intake on my car untuned...so...I guess I should take it back off..? If this is the case..then why do companies like ETS, AMS, and Buschur say you can run these things untuned on an X..please help me understand..alot of people can have severe engine damage if this is the case...
Jul 22, 2009, 06:28 AM
#20
Daniel came in yesterday to get his 2009 Ralliart tuned with his new parts. Dan had brought in the car with the downpipe and testpipe installed along with an Ultimate Racing intake filter and adapter.
I haven't seen the Ralliart stock intake in detail but the stock Evo X has a ~2.8" housing while many intake upgrades use a 3" housing. While the change is sigificant it usually ends up being between .5 and 1.0 AFR leaner which on a stock Evo X will push you from high 9's to high 10's and is USUALLY safe without a tune. The stock timing advance tables are pretty aggressive so getting a tune is still what I would recommend, especially if other parts are thrown in and you are increasing boost levels.
Unfortunately for this buyer, he received great results however his fueling maps are maxed out at 7.4afr in the ECU and it is still in the 12's AFR due to the intake design.
Jul 22, 2009, 07:26 AM
#21
I feel sorry for you guys at TTP. Every time you bring an example of this up, every dummy who has no idea what you just said reply and mucks up the thread in the first page. There's enough misinformation in the first page to turn your hair gray! I'd have thrown my hands up in frustration by now 
Cheers to your perserverance!
To everyone who's still on the short bus (apparently all but a couple of the repliers so far): increasing intake airflow should NOT lean the car out. That increased airflow should get detected by the MAF sensor, which should cause the car to add more fuel in compensation for the increased airflow and maintain the SAME target AFR that the ECU is tuned to achieve. At least until the point where the weakest link in the fuel delivery system is maxed out (not the case here).
What's happening with intakes that modify the dimensions of the MAF housing is that they are causing the MAF sensor to basically become miscalibrated, and causing it to detect less air than is actually flowing into the engine. How can you expect the engine to work properly if it doesn't even really know how much air it's working with? More importantly, how can you expect any other performance modifications to be designed to safely work with a car who's engine now effectively has faulty sensors?
No wonder Mitsu blindly voids warranties when they see aftermarket anything. With people accepting this practice as ok out of ignorance, I can't blame them. It's not worth their time to do all the home work for you, after the fact. If you want to change the intake and still have any warranty, you better be able to PROVE that the intake you installed did not change the way any of the engine sensors work. Heck, I'd run the idea and your testing plans by your dealer first and get their blessing. Most will work with you if you show you know what you're talking about and are making an effort to make be open and do things safely.
I know we'll have someone who says 'All I'm ever going to do is put an intake on my car. I'll never get it tuned anyawy, so isn't this like also getting a free tune with your intake?'. I see your point, but is the extra 10whp you'll get over just a $50 performance box filter worth more than 100k miles of PT warranty if that's really all you're going to do? If so, accept that fact now and remember it when you feel like crying on the forums about Mitsu voiding your warranty over an intake
Cheers to your perserverance!To everyone who's still on the short bus (apparently all but a couple of the repliers so far): increasing intake airflow should NOT lean the car out. That increased airflow should get detected by the MAF sensor, which should cause the car to add more fuel in compensation for the increased airflow and maintain the SAME target AFR that the ECU is tuned to achieve. At least until the point where the weakest link in the fuel delivery system is maxed out (not the case here).
What's happening with intakes that modify the dimensions of the MAF housing is that they are causing the MAF sensor to basically become miscalibrated, and causing it to detect less air than is actually flowing into the engine. How can you expect the engine to work properly if it doesn't even really know how much air it's working with? More importantly, how can you expect any other performance modifications to be designed to safely work with a car who's engine now effectively has faulty sensors?
No wonder Mitsu blindly voids warranties when they see aftermarket anything. With people accepting this practice as ok out of ignorance, I can't blame them. It's not worth their time to do all the home work for you, after the fact. If you want to change the intake and still have any warranty, you better be able to PROVE that the intake you installed did not change the way any of the engine sensors work. Heck, I'd run the idea and your testing plans by your dealer first and get their blessing. Most will work with you if you show you know what you're talking about and are making an effort to make be open and do things safely.
I know we'll have someone who says 'All I'm ever going to do is put an intake on my car. I'll never get it tuned anyawy, so isn't this like also getting a free tune with your intake?'. I see your point, but is the extra 10whp you'll get over just a $50 performance box filter worth more than 100k miles of PT warranty if that's really all you're going to do? If so, accept that fact now and remember it when you feel like crying on the forums about Mitsu voiding your warranty over an intake
Jul 22, 2009, 07:34 AM
#22
ok now i know this is for a 2009 lancer 2.4l injen CAI and not a ralliart or evo x but is this what you guys are talking about may be bad for the engine.
these photos are close up camera phone shots of the injens new intake for the 2009 lancer. notice the pipe inside that allows air to flow to the engine without the maf sensor detecting it...
these photos are close up camera phone shots of the injens new intake for the 2009 lancer. notice the pipe inside that allows air to flow to the engine without the maf sensor detecting it...
Jul 22, 2009, 07:35 AM
#23
I feel sorry for you guys at TTP. Every time you bring an example of this up, every dummy who has no idea what you just said reply and mucks up the thread in the first page. There's enough misinformation in the first page to turn your hair gray! I'd have thrown my hands up in frustration by now Cheers to your perserverance!
To everyone who's still on the short bus (apparently all but a couple of the repliers so far): increasing intake airflow should NOT lean the car out. That increased airflow should get detected by the MAF sensor, which should cause the car to add more fuel in compensation for the increased airflow and maintain the SAME target AFR that the ECU is tuned to achieve. At least until the point where the weakest link in the fuel delivery system is maxed out (not the case here).
What's happening with intakes that modify the dimensions of the MAF housing is that they are causing the MAF sensor to basically become miscalibrated, and causing it to detect less air than is actually flowing into the engine. How can you expect the engine to work properly if it doesn't even really know how much air it's working with? More importantly, how can you expect any other performance modifications to be designed to safely work with a car who's engine now effectively has faulty sensors?
No wonder Mitsu blindly voids warranties when they see aftermarket anything. With people accepting this practice as ok out of ignorance, I can't blame them. It's not worth their time to do all the home work for you, after the fact. If you want to change the intake and still have any warranty, you better be able to PROVE that the intake you installed did not change the way any of the engine sensors work. Heck, I'd run the idea and your testing plans by your dealer first and get their blessing. Most will work with you if you show you know what you're talking about and are making an effort to make be open and do things safely.
I know we'll have someone who says 'All I'm ever going to do is put an intake on my car. I'll never get it tuned anyawy, so isn't this like also getting a free tune with your intake?'. I see your point, but is the extra 10whp you'll get over just a $50 performance box filter worth more than 100k miles of PT warranty if that's really all you're going to do? If so, accept that fact now and remember it when you feel like crying on the forums about Mitsu voiding your warranty over an intake
Cheers to your perserverance!To everyone who's still on the short bus (apparently all but a couple of the repliers so far): increasing intake airflow should NOT lean the car out. That increased airflow should get detected by the MAF sensor, which should cause the car to add more fuel in compensation for the increased airflow and maintain the SAME target AFR that the ECU is tuned to achieve. At least until the point where the weakest link in the fuel delivery system is maxed out (not the case here).
What's happening with intakes that modify the dimensions of the MAF housing is that they are causing the MAF sensor to basically become miscalibrated, and causing it to detect less air than is actually flowing into the engine. How can you expect the engine to work properly if it doesn't even really know how much air it's working with? More importantly, how can you expect any other performance modifications to be designed to safely work with a car who's engine now effectively has faulty sensors?
No wonder Mitsu blindly voids warranties when they see aftermarket anything. With people accepting this practice as ok out of ignorance, I can't blame them. It's not worth their time to do all the home work for you, after the fact. If you want to change the intake and still have any warranty, you better be able to PROVE that the intake you installed did not change the way any of the engine sensors work. Heck, I'd run the idea and your testing plans by your dealer first and get their blessing. Most will work with you if you show you know what you're talking about and are making an effort to make be open and do things safely.
I know we'll have someone who says 'All I'm ever going to do is put an intake on my car. I'll never get it tuned anyawy, so isn't this like also getting a free tune with your intake?'. I see your point, but is the extra 10whp you'll get over just a $50 performance box filter worth more than 100k miles of PT warranty if that's really all you're going to do? If so, accept that fact now and remember it when you feel like crying on the forums about Mitsu voiding your warranty over an intake
However my dyno clearly shows that the car is still ridiculously rich, so in my case it would not have mattered but I was getting tuned regardless, it was a baseline with the parts installed.
You kind of make it seem like its bad to get an intake that does this, but I think you are simply trying to stress the point that people need to tune their cars, lol.
TUNE PEOPLE TUNE, its worth every penny, otherwise stick to exhaust's and rims.
Jul 22, 2009, 08:17 AM
#24
To everyone who's still on the short bus (apparently all but a couple of the repliers so far): increasing intake airflow should NOT lean the car out. That increased airflow should get detected by the MAF sensor, which should cause the car to add more fuel in compensation for the increased airflow and maintain the SAME target AFR that the ECU is tuned to achieve. At least until the point where the weakest link in the fuel delivery system is maxed out (not the case here).
What's happening with intakes that modify the dimensions of the MAF housing is that they are causing the MAF sensor to basically become miscalibrated, and causing it to detect less air than is actually flowing into the engine. How can you expect the engine to work properly if it doesn't even really know how much air it's working with? More importantly, how can you expect any other performance modifications to be designed to safely work with a car who's engine now effectively has faulty sensors?
What's happening with intakes that modify the dimensions of the MAF housing is that they are causing the MAF sensor to basically become miscalibrated, and causing it to detect less air than is actually flowing into the engine. How can you expect the engine to work properly if it doesn't even really know how much air it's working with? More importantly, how can you expect any other performance modifications to be designed to safely work with a car who's engine now effectively has faulty sensors?
Jul 22, 2009, 09:53 AM
#27
Just to clear the air as this thread is a little misleading.
In regards to AMS products and AMS PRODUCTS ONLY!
On an EVO X you can run an AMS intake without a tune SAFELY!
On a 2009 Ralliart you CANNOT run an AMS intake without a tune.
They are two TOTALLY Different animals.
Again the problem is with the RALLIART ONLY in regards to AMS PRODUCTS ONLY
We cannot speak for any other intake on the market but we suspect that any intake for the ralliart that changes the diameter or anything to do with the MAF will cause a lean condition.
Eric
In regards to AMS products and AMS PRODUCTS ONLY!
On an EVO X you can run an AMS intake without a tune SAFELY!
On a 2009 Ralliart you CANNOT run an AMS intake without a tune.
They are two TOTALLY Different animals.
Again the problem is with the RALLIART ONLY in regards to AMS PRODUCTS ONLY
We cannot speak for any other intake on the market but we suspect that any intake for the ralliart that changes the diameter or anything to do with the MAF will cause a lean condition.
Eric
Jul 22, 2009, 09:57 AM
#28
The product was probably developed for Evo X and they may have thought it was OK to use on Ralliart since it is OK on Evo X.
Jul 22, 2009, 09:58 AM
#29
Just to clear the air as this thread is a little misleading.
In regards to AMS products and AMS PRODUCTS ONLY!
On an EVO X you can run an AMS intake without a tune SAFELY!
On a 2009 Ralliart you CANNOT run an AMS intake without a tune.
They are two TOTALLY Different animals.
Again the problem is with the RALLIART ONLY in regards to AMS PRODUCTS ONLY
We cannot speak for any other intake on the market but we suspect that any intake for the ralliart that changes the diameter or anything to do with the MAF will cause a lean condition.
Eric
In regards to AMS products and AMS PRODUCTS ONLY!
On an EVO X you can run an AMS intake without a tune SAFELY!
On a 2009 Ralliart you CANNOT run an AMS intake without a tune.
They are two TOTALLY Different animals.
Again the problem is with the RALLIART ONLY in regards to AMS PRODUCTS ONLY
We cannot speak for any other intake on the market but we suspect that any intake for the ralliart that changes the diameter or anything to do with the MAF will cause a lean condition.
Eric
Jul 22, 2009, 10:21 AM
#30
Great job by TTP to bring this issue in front of everyone.
Great post by blk-majik. What he said needed to be said.
Great post by AMS to set things straight after all the misinformation about their product...even though their product was not installed on the car in question.
Great post by blk-majik. What he said needed to be said.
Great post by AMS to set things straight after all the misinformation about their product...even though their product was not installed on the car in question.