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Old Aug 3, 2010, 06:16 AM
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*service required* *ASC light* after tune

So i got my car back from lightspeed innovations, and have been driving it for a about a week with no problems.

But today on the way to work on the highway, i had the car in normal mode, manual mode, 6th gear, asc on tarmac, RPM at about 2700, and applied about 80% throttle. The car made boost and accelerated for about 2 seconds, then upshifted itself to 5 gear while i was in manual mode and the service required light came on, and the ASC turned itself off. otherwise the car didn't make any weird noises. I just pulled over, shut it off and turned it back on and the service warning went away.

Anyone have any ideas? probably should've pulled the code.
Old Aug 3, 2010, 06:51 AM
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Overboost and into "Limp" mode? Is your BOV venting to atmosphere or recirculating?
Old Aug 3, 2010, 07:09 AM
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recirc. it flutters a bit too. probably going to swap it for a turbosmart dualport. i HATE that PSHpsh psh psh BS. And yeah maybe overboost, the tuner said its spiking 27.5 psi. I also talked to another guy that said if the SSt is over the torque limit a similar situation will happen.
Old Aug 3, 2010, 07:49 AM
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It might be a SST issue, since it did downshift. I think you are still under the "max" torque for the SST though aren't you?


If its a over boost thing, I used to get that in another turbo car I had, it would buck a little bit and the Check engine light would flash and it would keep it under 7 PSI until I shut-off the car.
I would keep watching it, and next time see if you can get a code off of it

Ohh and the "flutter" is most likely your wastegate not your BOV.

Last edited by Bo0yaka; Aug 3, 2010 at 07:54 AM. Reason: changed my mind
Old Aug 3, 2010, 07:59 AM
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yeah i don't really want to reproduce the situation, but if i do, i'll pull a code next time. pretty sure i can do that with my accessport.

in regards to the flutter, the tuner guy said that it was the BOV, the intake charge is bouncing back and fourth in the intake between the BOV and the throttle plate. I think that's how he described it. maybe i'm wrong. I've heard that you can tune that out of the car, not sure if you adjust the BOV, or have to do something more. is it so bad to just want it to go WHHHOOOOSH!!!!? hahh
Old Aug 3, 2010, 10:10 AM
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Whoa, you're making 341 torque? Have you been keeping up with the threads on here? I don't want to go around assuming anything, but I would try to limit your torque to a number closer to 300, that's where I would start, because I'm thinking that's the problem.
Old Aug 3, 2010, 10:23 AM
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that probem is directly related to the hks valve. i had the same issue when i had mine on. let me find the post...
Old Aug 3, 2010, 10:23 AM
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I also had a very bad BOV flutter right after I got tuned. Your turbo is basically raming more air into the TB than the engine can use and thus it is bouncing back and out the BOV. AMS made a few alterations to my tune which resulted in a bit less boost at low rpm/throttle %s but it helped the situation. At first the car was basically undrivable in Auto mode, now it will still flutter in Auto but it doesn't buck.
Old Aug 3, 2010, 10:30 AM
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from when another guy was having a similar issue, here we go:

Originally Posted by 03chi-town0Z
it's likely a maf code. usually attributed to a bov leak or some other unexpected activity on the intake side of the engine. it happens because at highway speeds, you are usually under a very light boost condition and the recirculation valve is in a state that can be difficult to manage if the car isnt set up properly. i had this problem with the hks ssqv installed. every time i would let off the gas coming up to a toll plaza and then try to accelerate moderately back to cruising speed, it would flutter like crazy and throw a code p1235 i believe. then it would lose power drastically and by the time i'd get to the side of the road, the idle would be really high (around 2k rpms and it would hunt up and down 500-1k rpms) and the shifts were extremely rough. turning the car off and letting it sit for a minute then restarting gets it to run normally again, but the code is obviously, as you said, still present.

if the kn filter and tune are really the only things done to the car, i'd take it back to ttp cause there's likely something in the tune that's not allowing the recirculation system to function properly and there's air going where it shouldnt. if you have their "boost control" modification installed, i would reconsider getting the gst or ams pill instead and get the car retuned for that.

for the time being, in order to prevent this from happening, if you are cruising at highway speeds and want to accelerate somewhat rapidly, let off the gas for a second, tap the left shift paddle to downshift and, once it has shifted, then hit the gas. the shift will cause enough pressure differential in the system to quickly open and reseal the valve effectively so there is no leak back up to the turbo, and no bucking condition, and effectively, no cel.

good luck!
original thread: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...-metering.html
Old Aug 3, 2010, 10:51 AM
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BOVs do not "flutter" they open and they close. BOVs can have all kinds of add ons that make all kinds of cool noises but they DO NOT FLUTTER.

You could have A. Compressor surge "compressor surge, caused by pressurised air blowing back through the turbo when you close the throttle. Compressor surge occurs when the blades of the compressor “slip” in the air, much like an aeroplane wing stalling. This condition is most common when shutting the throttle and not opening a BOV far enough, but it can also occur with the throttle open under boost conditions if the turbo is not correctly matched to the engine. The fluttering noise is simply a result of the pressurised air trying to escape through the turbo, and the turbo attempting (under its own momentum) to cram it back in. The high velocities of the air involved can sometimes make a chirping noise in combination with the flutter.
"

Or B. you are hearing your wastegate.

"The wastegate senses the boost pressure. If the pressure gets too high, it could be an indicator that the turbine is spinning too quickly, so the wastegate bypasses some of the exhaust around the turbine blades, allowing the blades to slow down"


Or C. SST over torque limit


I am voting for A with your mods
Old Aug 3, 2010, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by toredefine
Whoa, you're making 341 torque? Have you been keeping up with the threads on here? I don't want to go around assuming anything, but I would try to limit your torque to a number closer to 300, that's where I would start, because I'm thinking that's the problem.

I've kept an eye out, guys have been making more torque than my #'s and haven't cooked thier SSt yet. I don't wanna back it off unless i HAVE to.

I talked to the tuner, and he suggested not to really jam on the gas unless the car is above 3500RPM because it adds extra load. better off to downshift before you gas it.
Old Aug 3, 2010, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bo0yaka
BOVs do not "flutter" they open and they close. BOVs can have all kinds of add ons that make all kinds of cool noises but they DO NOT FLUTTER.

You could have A. Compressor surge "compressor surge, caused by pressurised air blowing back through the turbo when you close the throttle. Compressor surge occurs when the blades of the compressor “slip” in the air, much like an aeroplane wing stalling. This condition is most common when shutting the throttle and not opening a BOV far enough, but it can also occur with the throttle open under boost conditions if the turbo is not correctly matched to the engine. The fluttering noise is simply a result of the pressurised air trying to escape through the turbo, and the turbo attempting (under its own momentum) to cram it back in. The high velocities of the air involved can sometimes make a chirping noise in combination with the flutter.
"

Or B. you are hearing your wastegate.

"The wastegate senses the boost pressure. If the pressure gets too high, it could be an indicator that the turbine is spinning too quickly, so the wastegate bypasses some of the exhaust around the turbine blades, allowing the blades to slow down"


Or C. SST over torque limit


I am voting for A with your mods
most of what you say is correct, except hks valves DO "flutter". i'm not going to get into an extended argument, but the design of the twin valves in the hks may cause a slight "flutter" under light boost conditions because the smaller valve will try to open to relieve the pressure but it is not enough and so the larger valve opens and releases the rest. while under the cruising/low boost condition, the smaller of the two valves in the hks has a tendency to partially open because of the vacuum/boost differential, it's a design flaw. this ultimately leads to overboosting and compressor surge, which is the actual problem that causes the physical jerking of the car and entry into "limp mode", but this stems from a valve problem. I switched from the hks to an oem x valve and duplicated the conditions that would trigger the problem every time and could not once get the valve to flutter nor the compressor surge issue to repeat.

op, if you're not running vta with maf relocation and all that comes with it (there's a term for this that eludes me), the hks has proven to be problematic with our cars. either perform the method described in my earlier post or switch valves and i promise the problem will be gone.
Old Aug 3, 2010, 02:57 PM
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I would agree with you that the design is flawed on the HKS then seems it is designed for really high HP cars,Supra or 700 hp Evo.
Seems the concept would not function as well on a lower HP car(lower boosting).
http://www.hksusa.com/products/more.asp?id=792

Since your post I have looked up some more posts about it on other cars and it seems to cause all kinds of problems
My friend runs it on his Supra but he vents to atmosphere, so I wonder if running it as a Re-circ could also add to the problem?

Last edited by Bo0yaka; Aug 3, 2010 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Mo better reading
Old Aug 3, 2010, 06:16 PM
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yeah, im not sure if its the recirc function specifically, or that the twin valve design doesnt provide a complete seal under light boost/mid throttle conditions and causes confusion in the maf interpretation system...

..."speed density" haha! i knew i'd think of it. that seems to be the only setup that functions well with the hks on an evo or similar platform since they are set up for vta.
Old Aug 3, 2010, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Chops
I've kept an eye out, guys have been making more torque than my #'s and haven't cooked thier SSt yet. I don't wanna back it off unless i HAVE to.
Wasn't AMS the only one with more torque and their clutch plates in their tranny turned to mush after not too long. I thought anything over 300 was like playing russian roulette with our tranny?


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