Part of your accel and decel fueling is jacked because your throttle inj corr table is set to zero and the boost comp piece isn't working on your car. Your map is set for boost comp but the signal is dropping out or getting filtered out somehow. Nothing is going to be worth tuning until you get this issue fixed as mentioned above. You might try changing you map filter and logging map voltage at a very high sample rate along with the voltage to make sure it tracks along with the map readings.

 

How much throttle inj correction are you advocating? What I wrote earlier about the pitfalls of TIC on a turbo car still stands in my mind, what is the argument that you see for needing to use such a correction?

I'm attaching a couple minute log of me driving yesterday... it has engine load, engine speed, accel dtps, throttle, accel fuel, etc. so you can see that everything looks pretty reasonable...

scratch that, it's too big to attach, here's a link:

LOG FILE

 

Accel fuel is just a very quick blip of fuel but it must be smooth in its act of adding and taking away, if your car is lean it is because it cannot compensate for the throttle position change after the accel fuel in most cases. As for your Accel fuel from a glance compared to most evos I have tuned it looks as if the trigger is too low (when fuel comes on it happens too soon / not at the right time) Your accel limit is too high so when fueling does come on its too much at one time. You pump sustain is too low so you only get one burst so the accel fuel isn't smooth, it is adding it then taking it away directly instead of being smooth with the removal. the Sens looks fairly accurate. Also change your modifier table to be static from 100-100.

Your drivability problems are in your map, I still wouldn't tune this car until I found out why the boost compensation map isn't responding. Have you tried to lower your map filter down from where it is at now to see if it makes any difference.

FYI you do realize your knock control is turned off also right.

 

Thanks for the comments. I have tried so many different combinations of trigger (between 2 and 20) limit (between 50 and 300) sustain (between 0.5 and 15) and sensistivity (between 50 and 95). With four different variables and let's say at least 3-4 different values for each, you are looking at between 80 and 250 different combinations. I obviously haven't tried them all, but I have tried many!

I first disabled accel fueling altogether (limit = 0%). I then made very long (5th gear up a slight hill) pulls holding load constant. I did this at 40kpa, 70kpa and 100kpa. Doing this the accel contribution would be basically nil and it allowed me to tweak to fuel map to get the right values. From there I started adding on accel enrichment and getting the in-gear stuff working well wasn't too hard. But off-idle and free revving were horrible. I need a lot more fuel for them. Even with the modifier tables at 100% across the board I just wasn't getting enough. The only way I've been able to get a clean 0-50-0 TPS free rev is by doing 300% limit. Anything less and the car goes super lean and stumbles. However, any limit value over 100% causes massively over-rich conditions when driving in gear. In those cases the car goes < 10.0 and stumbles from being lean. So, for months I have been trying every combination I can dream up to try to get both extremes working properly. No luck so far.

I am going to try to get some more results on wether the boost comp is really working or not.

 

Well, "electronically" the boost correct seems to be working. As I sit there idling the fuel map is at 1420us and the map sensor is reading 35kpa. Fuel Trim (Boost) is what you'd expect (1420 * .35 = 497us). If I go in to the boost correct table and raise or lower the curve in the 35kpa area the car goes rich then lean...

The only thing that I could think of - if there is a problem at all - is maybe it's related to the fuel pressure regulator. That would explain needing to request more pulsewidth than you'd expect under "ideal" conditions.

In any case, I played around with more combinations of the accel fueling and now it's back to where I started: The in-gear driving is "pretty darn good" but the off-idle and free rev sucks. Even if I max out all the tables I don't get enough accel fuel for a free rev until I get the limit up to about 150%. At that level the in-gear accel is way too much. A limit of around 50-60% is pretty good for actual driving. It's like a need a way to set the limit according to a raw pulsewidth, not a percentage.

Do you actually have a single set of settings that free revs without going lean and yet doesn't drown in fuel when in gear? Also, you said to set the accel mod table static but that causes problems when you are at 50% throttle and fully spooled and then nail it the rest of the way down. The boost isn't really changing but yet your are dumping in a large amount of accel fuel which flatlines it at 10.0:1 momentarily. There's so much airflow that it doesn't seem to actually fall on its face like it does at lower loads, but it's still excessively rich. I rolled off the accel mod table above 50% TPS to help with this.

Here's my latest map... This one actually rips around town without any annoying behavior, except for the free rev that is.

 

i guess i made a pretty good crutch

i pull out ~35% @ 0% & -15% for mid throttle. i live in a hilly area, drive my car daily, i get 16-18 city mpg & 26-29 hwy mpg @ 85mph on a oem turbo.

there are many ways to skin a cat, i have just chosen mine.....good luck finding yours

 

You will never get the best of both worlds until you start using the throttle injection correct table along with fuel accel mods. Some of the issue of part throttle stab is still the accel limit along with a better adjustment of the dTPS Accel table & TPS Accel Factor Table, Throttle accel does look much better though so you are on the right track. Your boost fuel correct might be working and things could be looking different becuase your load scalar to your maps is quite a bit different that I usually tune with also.

 

Martin,
thanks for the prompt response.

I have purchased all parts through Eric and got Chris send me the base map.
I have also asked for a wiring diagrams for the MAP & IAT sensors just to make sure i am wiring it right, but i had to do many search and got to ask many guys on the forum to finally make it.

the map does make the car starts after many cranking but once you take off your foot of the paddle it just dies. and if starts, it will just miss fire all the time while my foot on the paddle.
that was the only way to get it running.

if you want, i can video tape the thing, and have my A/F meter on too so you guys can get a feeling of it! my car has been on the floor for more than 1 month just bcz of this issue

I cant step by you place, i am located overseas.

I will pay whoever comeover here and does it for me.

 

EP,

To quickly sanity check your MAP sensor, connect AEMPro to your car with the key on but the motor not running. Pull up the "MAP Volts" parameter in a parameter window: it should be between 1.6V and 1.7V. For the AEM 3.5 bar map sensor this is what atmospheric pressure translates into. If you also look at the "Engine Load" parameter it should be between 95kpa and 105kpa. If the voltage is right but the load is wrong, then the sensor scaling is wrong in the software. If the voltage is wrong then either you don't have the 3.5 bar map sensor or it is wired up incorrectly. When the car actually starts, the voltage (and load) should drop down. If you don't see any change in the readings then you would need to explore the vacuum/boost connection to the map sensor itself. In other words, the sensor could be wired perfectly, but if it doesn't have a proper hose running to it then the reading won't reflect what the manifold/engine is seeing.

Hope that helps!

 

Agreed. If you have a class I would gladdy pay you to teach me.

 

2JZfan : Try to test what i have made for you in IGN map. This is just something like converted values from my EVO OEM tuned ecu. It works very fine, and not everything must be a problem of A/F ratio. My maping ist pretty different in oposite to yours, spetialy in area around 0 PSI (1ATM absolute).

Just put it in and try the driveability around the city and write me feedback.

Karel

 

And please turn your knock control better ON

 

you all should do a siminar sometime. I'd try my best to attend

 

I agree with the accel fuel, less fuel more sustain. But the biggest thing that will help your transient fuel is lowering your map filter. Set it to 2 (as long as the signal doesnt get too dirty) and you'll be able to get accel fuel a lot lower. try 30%limit and 25% sustain. with an 89 sensitivity.

Tony

 

I like this discussion so I would like to bring it back.

I have an issue with temp compensation. Not an actual issue but a theoretical one. Two Scenarios-

1. You have your fuel map set up to whatever AFR you want at a given air temp. Peak torque has more fuel and higher RPMS have less (unless you have some VE monster that has a straight across fuel curve).
When you tell the computer to adjust by adding or removing fuel, it is done on a percent basis. Therefore the peak torque areas where the fuel values are higher will be affected more in terms of raw units. 10% of 15 > 10% of 10.
So when you are taking fuel away you are "flattening" your curve and when you add fuel you are making it peakier.

In my mind this causes a problem as it changes the way your VE looks.

2. When you are taking fuel away in higher temps, if you are also taking timing away to adjust for the hotter air then wouldn't you have to take even more fuel out? As I've seen, when you take timing away the AFR go rich. So does this mean that your air temp timing trim has to follow your air temp fuel trim?