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I spoke with my tuner about this and he sad he did the sync process and my values within the aem table are representative of actual timing numbers. But like I said, I will check it with a gun sometime this week.
I sent my cal (the one from my original first post) to Aaron at English racing. He is saying my ign map is only about 4* too high. And "its where it supposed to be at for 29 psi."
So why do all of you say that map is crazy high and Aaron says oh its only high by 4*?
The first cal you posted if you were running 29-31psi then you were at 20.6-23.4* of timing from 4200rpm on. That is crazy timing. At redline, sure, but at peek torque wow that is scary.
With the new timing map the numbers are much better(safer). You need to get a good baseline where the AFR is on point with where you want it, and your have a good ramp in your ignition timing. So if you are running 20psi, then tune the **** out of it there, get the AFR, Timing, and power dialed in. Then you can start tuning up the boost. If you are having ignition breakup the you need to fix that. You should be able to make super clean pulls all the way to redline, if you cannot then you need to correct the tune.
You can target 0-5* at peek torque, and 15-20* at redline. Your target AFR should be 12.0 on E85 as a baseline. So at peek torque you can be leaner, but those are the good start points.
11.5 is a rich as your tune should get, if it goes richer lean it up. If you car is showing knock pull 1-2* of timing before and during the knock event.
Looks like my peak torque is a little after 6k rpms.
When I am looking for knock....what about the knock sensor calibration? I assume the numbers that are in there are for a factory evo 9 motor. I read that you need to calibrate your knock sensor on a tune you know is 100% clean from knock, but how do you know its clean if your knock sensor is not setup from the get go?
And about the ignition breakup (I am assuming that's what it is). How can you tell if its indeed ignition breakup? I am just confused why it doesn't "breakup" when on those high timing numbers at 30 psi but does when on conservative timing numbers at 20 psi. Maybe I have the timing numbers too low at that rpm?...I am giving it only 1* of timing around 4500
but I thought you want like 0-5* tops at mbt. I am seeing about 16-18* at mbt....What am I missing here?
MBT is a property of the fuel, not a point on a dyno graph. It is found by advancing the timing until you no longer see a gain in horsepower or torque from advancing the timing, or you see knock.
Lower Boost == More Timing + Leaner AFR
Higher Boost == Less Timing + Richer AFR
E85 == Hotter plug, run a stock heat range plug, unless you are doing 800+whp.
Example of a timing curve:
Also if Aaron says your are good then call it a night.
But your cal has to much timing in the cruise areas, and not enough in the low load areas. Smooth is fast. Your ignition map should not look like lego blocks.
that's kind of confusing....I have all of you saying its crazy high timing and then Aaron saying its ok. See my cal is tuned in the flex fuel workspace because I initially wanted a flex fuel tune. So basically the flex fuel and flex ignition tables are where I am doing my tuning currently. I have it setup that it uses the flex fuel map 100% of the time no matter the ethanol content. And I have it set to use 100% of the flex ignition map above 80% ethanol. I have only run 88-90% in the car since its been tuned. Therefore it should have no drift into the other tables. Aaron's response to my cal made it sound like he assumed drift was happening which would make my numbers go down, but my log clearly shows high timing numbers in areas where they shouldn't be.
I think what many are missing is that you aren't on a small frame turbo making peak tq at 4k. Your timing map makes me cringe as well, but if it was tuned on a dyno to find the right timing for your setup and the flex fuel map is setup correctly to pull enough timing if you deviate from e90, than you should be fine.
Your tuner made you a ton of power. Why are you questioning? Also, why tune at 50+psi if you intend to only run 30? Were the 30psi cells optimized on the dyno also? That would be my only concern.
I think what many are missing is that you aren't on a small frame turbo making peak tq at 4k. Your timing map makes me cringe as well, but if it was tuned on a dyno to find the right timing for your setup and the flex fuel map is setup correctly to pull enough timing if you deviate from e90, than you should be fine.
Your tuner made you a ton of power. Why are you questioning? Also, why tune at 50+psi if you intend to only run 30? Were the 30psi cells optimized on the dyno also? That would be my only concern.
I completely understand where you are coming from, and your arguments make sense, but here is my argument. I am not trying to say I am right, I am just arguing for devils advocate sake, to learn more or less...
I make my peak torque at around 6100-6300 rpms. If you look at my cal, at that rpms, my cal has 12-17* (depending on boost pressure of course). This is what is scaring me, because everyone and their mom is saying timing in that area should be 0-5* tops.
In addition, my ignition and fuel map do not start blending until below 80% ethanol. I have kept 87-90% ethanol in the tank at all times, so therefore I am not blending with the other map.
Yes, my tuner did make me a **** ton of power, but that doesn't mean its reliable power. It could be a ticking time bomb. My tuner never calibrated the knock sensor, so how could he be tuning based on MBT if he doesn't know if knock is occurring. He did say he looked at my spark plugs real well and they looked fine, so he has no worries.
We tuned to 50 psi because we wanted a max power setting. I don't care to roll around on 800+ whp all the time so I set my boost to 30. My tuner did some pulls on wastegate pressure (14 psi) so I would assume he tuned those areas.
Mbt can be seen on a dyno or vdr, not on a lot file.
The reason everyone says you timing is to high is because it is. Look at all the posted e85 cals and you will see. Now if your car likes 20+* at peek torque then there are other factors that are unknown. But when you were running high timing you cal was pulling 5* of timing indicating to much timing or your knock was not tuned.
The problem with asking on the forum is that we do not have the car I front of us so we have to assume what yu are saying is true.
Mbt can be seen on a dyno or vdr, not on a lot file.
The reason everyone says you timing is to high is because it is. Look at all the posted e85 cals and you will see. Now if your car likes 20+* at peek torque then there are other factors that are unknown. But when you were running high timing you cal was pulling 5* of timing indicating to much timing or your knock was not tuned.
The problem with asking on the forum is that we do not have the car I front of us so we have to assume what yu are saying is true.
My knock sensor was NOT tuned, so its hard to say actually how bad my knock is. That's why I need to get a very conservative tune to start calibrating it.
I know its hard doing this on the forums, but I have no one else to turn to. My local shop did the tune and they won't admit to any fault or say the tune isn't good.
