I think UFO is asking why you double clutch when trying to rev match...not vise versa.

I think the point he is trying to make is that a fully synchro'd tranny like the evo8 does not require double clutching when downshifting normally.

 

HT is all practice...just like driving a MT for the first time. you can read about it all you want and study all you want, but it takes time to get good at it. i personally feel i am ridiculously good with HT. it did take a lot of practice though.

as for HTing and skipping gears...ie 4 to 2...this is what I do...

4...throttle off and clutch in, hold brake, blip throttle, shift to 3, blip throttle, shift to 2, THEN clutch out...

easier said than done, i dont remember what speed or RPM but the RPMs are up there...

its all about confidence....

 

feather it..shift fast to stay in the high rpm to reduce lag/stall.

 

sure you donj't have to double clutch, it's your car, i don't care.

I do it, because i get a lot more smoother transition on high speed turns without jerkings, which helps the car stablize better.

also, this saves on clutch wear by almost 40%. When you let your syncro do all the work for you, you're basically dragging A ss on your clutch/ slipping the clutch between the clutch in and out.

it's really up to you. I do it because it's just a better driving than jerky downshifts.

of course you could do the clutchless shifting, but comeon, that;'s just dumb. clutch is there for a reason.

 

I think i had this sorta arguments before with you.

You obviously need help dealing with your issues or your ignorance or something that you have.

I'm sorry if your mom didn't hug you enough when you were a kid, but being ludicrous asking me those questions are just sad.

if you don't believe me, just go look up about 10000 sites on driving skills.

I've been doing this for almost 10 years, in different states (toe heel, double clutch, trail braking, etc), so i really don't care if you believe me or think I know what i'm talking about.



it's your car, do as you wish.

 

You're right, my Mom didn't hug me enough: but your Mom did, son. 10 years in different states? States of what? Idiocy? I've been driving for 19 years now, so do I get a medal? Only ever owned 2 automatic cars out of the 20 or so I have been in possession of (drove company cars for many years). Will double clutching save your syncros? Why, yes it will, but isn't that why they're there? So we don't have to double clutch? I've driven over a million miles in my life on public roads in many countries and race tracks (do I get another medal for that?) and I have never had to replace the syncros in any of my cars. Heel & toe is useful but double clutching is useless and unnecessary.

 

double clutch does save syncros, it does also save your clutch, but you're missing the biggest part of my argument, where it'll help you drive easier in hard driving situations.

over million mile you've driven, and how many is that on the track or hard driving mtn runs?

I've driven over a million miles and I've driven far less than you have.

so, stop getting angry at yourself, and go look up what the pro drivers and driving instructors have to say. And search few, not just find one that helps your argument.

that's all I'm going to say.

 

I'm curious as to how double clutching has any effect on the clutch. As long as you rev match, I don't see much clutch wear occurring. I also can't see how double clutching could possibly be faster or easier. All driving instructors I have ever talked to claim that double clutching is a waste of time in modern cars and will only slow you down. This may be wrong, I'm not sure, but based on what you have written I just don't see that you have provided any evidence for your claims. The only part of your statement I do agree with is that double clutching reduces synchro wear. If you could provide more evidence for your claims that double clutching results in smoother downshifts than just H/T and that it reduces clutch wear I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Paul

 

What? By doing twice the leg work for no reason?

On the track, not counting my go-kart racing, probably less than a thousand. Hard driving mountain runs? None. Hard driving runs through the valleys, country roads and hills of Scotland, Wales and England? Thousands. Stop trying to prove you're a better driver than me because the chances are that you're not and even if you are I don't think there's a single person on this planet who cares (other than you).

Huh?

Angry? Me? Haha. Pro drivers? Ever heard of ex-formula 1 driver Jonathon Palmer? I was lucky enough to attend his racing school among others while living in Blighty. Funny thing is, none of them even mentioned double clutching. I dunno though man, I guess it's because the Fast and the Furious hadn't been released yet?

I tell you what: Search the internet for videos, or switch on TV and watch the Speed channel. These new cameras are everywhere and plenty of times they give you video of the footwork of the drivers, so tell me how many professional drivers you see double clutching.

 

This has gotten quite personal I see. Well, from the driving schools I have attended, I was instructed to double-clutch. These schools were with formula cars that had straight-cut gears and no syncros, so there is a physical difference in the tranny. With that said, I do think it's faster to work with the single clutch method, and easier to learn. From the years I spent on the track, I still double-clutch as it's second-nature to me. I think that either one is much better than just switching gears and letting the clutch out...but wow, let's give a little room for preference and background here. Although it is fun to read the bickering.

 

blah blah blah

u watch too much nascar.

why don't you search some evo 9 videos test videos in this board first before you start mouthing off.

Like I said, you do whatever you want.

With out syncros, you can't do high speed double or single clutch rev match anyway.

here are some ex for your stubborn head

http://www.epinions.com/auto-review-...3A351631-prod4

http://www.urs4.com/technical/miscellaneous/Igor.html

http://www.g-speed.com/pbh/double-clutch.html

http://money.howstuffworks.com/chrysler-concept3.htm (built in double clutch system on double wet transmission - like all F-1 based shiftronic systems in modern cars)


i'm done with this thread. It's a waste of my time.

it's like talking to a rock.

 

you're right, it does NOT save the clutch or make d/shift less jerky. if you already matched the revs by blipping the throttle, u can let off the clutch and there'll be NO jerking whatsoever. double clutching only saves the synchros, but in modern cars it's not necessary unless you drive tripple quadrillion miles and constantly downshift. as far as videos go, watch some Best Motoring, i haven't seen them double clutch. has nothing to do with NAWZCAR. and please guys, don't turn this into "i'm better than you 'cause Stone Cold said so" thread. you don;t need to be a pro to understand what double clutching does, it's a simple engineering discussion. depends lots on preference too. i haven't raced as much as you guys, save for autox, but when i h/t, as long as i MATCH rpms there's NO jerking when i let off the clutch (which i do fast, without slipping it). and heck, i've been doin it for only a couple years. so if your car jerks on h/t, it's not single or double clutch issue, it's your rpm matching, if i can do it smoothly, then so can someone with million quadrizillion of miles of driving. double clutching if anything, only makes moving the shifter into gear easier cause everything is rotating at the same rpm so synchros mesh quicker, has nothing to do with clutch.

 

That has absolutely nothing to do with double-clutching. It is a system that incorporates two separate clutches. And also, most of the other links you posted don't claim that double-clutching is necessary in our transmissions, just that it makes the synchros work less.

-Paul

 

Subscribing to comment later.

 

Now you're pushing it too far . I have never watched Nascar. I grew up watching the WRC (yes, even been to the British rally in person when it used to run through Chester), British Touring Car Championship, DTM, Formula 1 (when it used to actually be fun to watch), and any other race that involves more than turning in 1 direction.

Like the Gilles Panizzi one where he never double clutches or rev matches? Or the ones on Mitsu's site where none of them double clutch? The Nurburgring vid? Point me to a single video where they double clutch. Please.

We have synchros though. What's your point?

The inclusion of the last link just goes to show how very little you actually know. Everyone can use Google, but it doesn't mean that the info you get is correct or that it applies to the topic at hand. The Chrysler uses 2 clutches, it has nothing to do with double clutching .


Don't lie, you'll be back .