Autocross Hairpin/180 question
Very interesting Chronohunter. I will give it a try this spring with data acquisition to prove to myself which way is fastest.
I am on these forums to learn, so I welcome all help, tips, and ideas that others are willing to share. But unlike many others I don't accept anything as truth until I have seen hard data or tested it myself. I did just that with my comparison of the AMS vs. SSAC intercoolers, and I eventually reversed my position on that subject. I am not above admitting I was wrong. That may be the case here. Thanks,
EVOlutionary
I am on these forums to learn, so I welcome all help, tips, and ideas that others are willing to share. But unlike many others I don't accept anything as truth until I have seen hard data or tested it myself. I did just that with my comparison of the AMS vs. SSAC intercoolers, and I eventually reversed my position on that subject. I am not above admitting I was wrong. That may be the case here. Thanks,
EVOlutionary
Originally Posted by EVOlutionary
Very interesting Chronohunter. I will give it a try this spring with data acquisition to prove to myself which way is fastest.
I am on these forums to learn, so I welcome all help, tips, and ideas that others are willing to share. But unlike many others I don't accept anything as truth until I have seen hard data or tested it myself. I did just that with my comparison of the AMS vs. SSAC intercoolers, and I eventually reversed my position on that subject. I am not above admitting I was wrong. That may be the case here. Thanks,
EVOlutionary
I am on these forums to learn, so I welcome all help, tips, and ideas that others are willing to share. But unlike many others I don't accept anything as truth until I have seen hard data or tested it myself. I did just that with my comparison of the AMS vs. SSAC intercoolers, and I eventually reversed my position on that subject. I am not above admitting I was wrong. That may be the case here. Thanks,
EVOlutionary
Glad to see you're willing to give it a try. Make sure to post your opinion once you've tried both methods.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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From: GA
i didn't know 03 and 04 had center diffferentials. I don't think there is.
camber adjustment could help alot, but mostly it's slow in, fast out. This is harder than it sounds.
I still have not master that yet. far from it.
The smooth driving is so difficult.
you could setup your suspension where the rear is a bit looser so you could swing the rear out as you turn, inducing a fish tail, which wont be so bad on Front engine based AWD like Evos.
We understeer terribly.
camber adjustment could help alot, but mostly it's slow in, fast out. This is harder than it sounds.
I still have not master that yet. far from it.
The smooth driving is so difficult.
you could setup your suspension where the rear is a bit looser so you could swing the rear out as you turn, inducing a fish tail, which wont be so bad on Front engine based AWD like Evos.
We understeer terribly.
Originally Posted by urbanknight
Woah there! Imagine what would happen if people actually considered the advice they read on this forum. There might be less flaming, fewer arguments, and a more friendly atmosphere. The mods like me will be fired and have to find a different non-paying job.
Glad to see you're willing to give it a try. Make sure to post your opinion once you've tried both methods.
Glad to see you're willing to give it a try. Make sure to post your opinion once you've tried both methods.
Thanks!
We had our regional SCCA awards banquet last night and I'm pumped for this year! Just talking with everyone again and going over the events of the past year and the plans and changes for the new year really got me going. Now I just need more $$ to try some really new setup ideas.
EVOlutionary
We had our regional SCCA awards banquet last night and I'm pumped for this year! Just talking with everyone again and going over the events of the past year and the plans and changes for the new year really got me going. Now I just need more $$ to try some really new setup ideas.
EVOlutionary
I disagree with the reasoning for trailbraking, the purpose of that technique should be to keep the suspension settled around the corner after you have completed your major braking. You would maintain chassis set with trail-braking. THe front suspension is compressed and you keep the forward directed weight transfer on the front wheels, thus increasing your tire contact patch.
That nakes sense considering you're talking about AWD. I was making the comment based on my FWD driving experience, where tailbraking is often the only way to get the rear end to swing around. Since the Evo behaves much like a FWD car, I was figuring it might work for that car as well, but can't say with any authority on that subject.
That theory on how to use trail braking applies to all cars. Obviously you see why it worked so effectively on your FWD. The front tire being your drive wheels benefited from the larger contact patch. As it applies to understeer, the reasoning is the same, larger contact patch.
Trail braking should only be applied approx. 1/3 into the corner (after your major braking is complete), at which point you start rolling off the brake and onto the throttle transfering weight to the rear of the car.
Trail braking should only be applied approx. 1/3 into the corner (after your major braking is complete), at which point you start rolling off the brake and onto the throttle transfering weight to the rear of the car.
Also remember guys, of how you want the car to come out of the corner. That is, what kind of corner is coming up next? How do you want to setup for the NEXT CORNER? Almost never in an autocross course do you see a hairpin that is at the end of a straightaway, and that spits you out into another straightaway.
Depending on the situation, the way of entry will be different. The best thing to do, in a general sense, will be to brake HARD before the turn, turn in hard, come out fast. The speed in which you go into a corner will be different for different turns and surface conditions.
I think hairpins should be taken slow and the grip of all 4 tires should be used. That is my experience with autocrossing at least. Words are very hard to use to describe driving but practice makes perfect! Good luck!
Depending on the situation, the way of entry will be different. The best thing to do, in a general sense, will be to brake HARD before the turn, turn in hard, come out fast. The speed in which you go into a corner will be different for different turns and surface conditions.
I think hairpins should be taken slow and the grip of all 4 tires should be used. That is my experience with autocrossing at least. Words are very hard to use to describe driving but practice makes perfect! Good luck!
Originally Posted by bobaab
I think hairpins should be taken slow and the grip of all 4 tires should be used. That is my experience with autocrossing at least.
btw, Will Kalman used trail braking for hairpins, and he is a former national champion. And you are correct about the type of turn making a difference. The only hairpin I've had to pine over had a sweeping left going into the hairpin right then a long straight (then we did it backwards the next day). Although turn-in was different, most people took it with the same method both days.
Originally Posted by urbanknight
I think that depends on how much space you have and what kind of car you are driving. I have a problem with going slow around corners because you can't shift into 1st on the Lancer NT, so you have to slip the clutch to keep the revs up.
Originally Posted by althemean
I disagree with the reasoning for trailbraking, the purpose of that technique should be to keep the suspension settled around the corner after you have completed your major braking. You would maintain chassis set with trail-braking. THe front suspension is compressed and you keep the forward directed weight transfer on the front wheels, thus increasing your tire contact patch.
Originally Posted by urbanknight
What about trail braking to get the back end around? I had the pleasure of riding shotgun in an Evo around a hairpin (autocross practice and my runs were over in my FWD) and I recall that as mentioned above, a slower entry speed helped him to be set up for the exit much earlier, so he got hard on the gas coming out of the turn. But I still couldn't help but wonder if trail braking could have allowed him to hold on to a tad more entry speed.
btw, a great place to take this question would be www.sccaforums.com
edit: and to agree with the post above, I have heard "slow in, fast out" "slow to go fast" and other sayings like that from almost every instructor I have ever talked to. Furthermore, I learned it myself as my fastest times were when I didn't go into any corners with too high of an entry speed, which always left me pushing and cranking the steering wheel fruitlessly.
btw, a great place to take this question would be www.sccaforums.com
edit: and to agree with the post above, I have heard "slow in, fast out" "slow to go fast" and other sayings like that from almost every instructor I have ever talked to. Furthermore, I learned it myself as my fastest times were when I didn't go into any corners with too high of an entry speed, which always left me pushing and cranking the steering wheel fruitlessly.
