unsubscribing...

 

Chronohunter I've got a lot out of your post. Whats going on?

Tom

 

too much bad information to muddle through from people who *think* they get it
sorry

 

what info is bad then.....youre the EvoM Guru.....

 

maybe I'm just tired, maybe it's too advanced, maybe It can't be understood over the internet, maybe no one actualy cares about how to really drive and they just post on here to justify their style of driving, maybe I'm not good as good at explaining things as I think I am.

In any case I explain something, someone responds with a wrong interpretation and they own little wrong anecdote and I try to explain it again until I get fed up like now. Or no one responds and other wrong posts bury my post and I get fed up like now.

That about sums it up.

Edit: all done for now...

 

I get fed up with this forum too....I dont think I posted for like 3 months straight. But I think there is some good stuff here. Believe me, the only reason I carried on in this thread was because I care passionately about driving. I think the other people did too. To each their own.

The purpose of this was to get different opinions on how to drive around a 180 hairpin and to determine which way is the best. I didnt see anything that lost sight of that except for that video....which I did say was off topic...

and now I dragged you back into it......sorry

 

I'm sorry about posting that video. It thought it was a good example of what not to do.

My car has a very bad problem of plowing around tight 180 turns. I've tried going much slower but found the solution to be an alignment and some slight throttle oversteer.

 

I for one appreciated your input and I think it will help me in future racing situations. Thanks!

Oh, and Jeff, I actually got a kick out of the video! I bet all the other people at the track were like "What in the he!! is this guy doing?" Then when he wrecked, even though they felt bad for him, they were probably thinking "Serves him right for driving like that!"

But I could see myself doing that. Getting overconfident in my skills and fooling around only to end up destroying my car. That video just reminded me to take it easy and keep things in control.

EVOlutionary

 

Anyway, back on topic. Please describe how to take a 180 degree corner with long straights before and after it in an EVO and why, using real, not perceived vehicle dynamics (physics).

Anyone who has actually used data aquisition to test different lines and methods please share your knowledge.

So far we have a couple choices:
1) braking in a straight line, then turning (arguably not the fastest way)
2) braking in a straight line, turning while trailbraking
3) scandanavian flick (arguably not the fastest and too difficult to be consistent for the average joe)

Any other contenders I am forgetting?

EVOlutionary

 

I think that sums it up....

 

That's the hard part. Driving theory is a gray area. Even Bondurant can only make a theory about the best method and the worst method, and that would even have to depend on what kind of car is being driven. Of course, certain people like Chrono, Altheman, etc. would have more sound theories because they have the knowledge, but that's why it's a sport, because there's no hard fast mathematical equasion to the best choices. Worst of all, this is a forum, so you're going to get a lot of show and no go. This question is best addressed at an autocross practice or school, listening to top drivers in your kind of car.

I belong to both auto racing boards and trumpet player boards. In both cases, the online debates (how to corner, how to get horsepower, how to play high notes, what mouthpiece to use, whatever) give me only a starter for information. After that, I have to have personal, hands on experience to have an opinion. Remember that the forums are only a starting point for ideas and that real life is where they are tested, and you will enjoy your cyber life much more

 

I'm back

This is where you are very wrong and where all the frustration comes in. There is only ONE way to drive a car to it's absolute limit PERIOD. There are infinite ways to drive it below it's absolute limit (and this is what most of the chatter here revolves around). I'm embarrassed to say it, it sounds arrogant, but it's true.

Being the chief instructor for a company that employs 400 professional racing drivers (as I write this one of them is second overall at Daytona and twenty or so more scattered through the field), all of which I am responsible for training and making sure they are saying the right things and are driving at the proper level.
I can tell you that all the fast ones drive the exact same way and are all within 1 tenth of each other and they are all professional race and champion winners.

It is all based on physics and the only variation is due to the weight distribution of the car. It is not a gray area, it is not subject to interpretation, it is not a theory, it is proven in professional motorsports every day.

I'll say it again, there is one way to drive a car at it's absolute maximum (and it simply involves optimising slip angle on all four tires as has already been described here).

 

Let me ask you chrono.....seriously, the reason I read the book was due to money for a school.....I am really good with directions and learning on my own. I have been driving go-carts since I was 8.....stealing my dads Z car and getting arrested at 13......I love to drive. Am I that far off with my interpretation?

I agree with you that there is one correct way and I dont believe in this gray area. You either are maximizing your traction 100% around a course or you are going slower.....seat time is the only thing that can help....theory only takes you so far.

Seeing as how you are an instructor...I value your thoughts.

 

I appreciate your enthusiasm and input and no you are not that far off. It should be pointed out though that you don't have to be far off to get in trouble. This stuff is not to be watered down or distilled "for simplicities sake" because you will realize at some point that it is never one obvious thing that you or anyone is doing that is right or wrong, it is the last few percent in what people are doing that lets them put it all togeather and actually start going quick enough to finally feel it all (phew). It's a subconsious understanding (feel) of the cars momentum (through the tires)...is that vague enough for you!

It's going well beyond "slow in fast out" by truly understanding the dynamics of what the cars needs and intuativly adapting to that

Just because you are close to some benchmark guy at an autocross or track day or amateur race does not mean "that's it, you got it." Those guys can still be driving poorly (on a global scale) and often are, it's often just a small pond where you're swimming . When you run with a really fast guy you will know it, I can use our own Mark Daddio as an example (he is so fast relatively that they call him "The Alien")

There is never ending subtlety to it. Unfortunately it's human nature to want the simplified version (the "crib notes") but realize with that attitude the subtlety is lost and no one will never be truly fast until the take the time and gain the experience to appreciate that.

I don't say any of these thing to belittle or to be harsh or to make myself feel good, I say it because I've been through it and helped thousands through it over my 15 years of professional instruction.

We could spend a day (or two or three) at the track and this would all be much less nebulous and therefore we wold avoid all this internet confusion .

My advice to you to improve as a driver to summarize all the blathering on my part is to drive at the limit every chance you get (at the track of course) but most of all develop your car control on a skid pad till you can instinctively fix any sort of slide. This "feel" that is developed opens your eyes to all the things I talk about.

 

Know of any good online resources for learning about types of twisties and how to handle them?