Autocross Hairpin/180 question
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 473
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From: Maple Shade NJ - All ur base r belong to us
thanks guys.
chrono: I'm usually at the events where i don't know many ppl, so i naturally walk it alone. I think what happens as i walk the course is that i'm moving too slowly to feel the turns flow one into the other. Then i get into the car and the course flows too fast compared to when i walked it. I'm always tempted to ride a bike or scooter around the course so that it at least simulates some of the speed. It could be the transition from 3mph walk to 25-60 mph drive that messes me up. So ur advice to visualize driving through each section individually as i stand at each gate, as opposed to visualizing walking through it, might do the trick. Also, trying to visualize a car going around the whole course while pretending to watch that car from the outside, i should try that. I do get a good amount of preparation from working the cones, because i get to see exactly what the cars are doing AND i get to imagine "staying ahead of that car". But usually that works only for the section that i can see from the worker station.
ratt_finkel: yea, course memorization makes up like 50% of my shaved off time from 1st run to best run. The other 50% of shaved seconds is from improving technique for that course. What i find weird is that right after the run, i sometimes can't put the whole thing together in my head. I may remember some sections of it to this day, because i either did really well or really poorly through them, but never the whole course.
I also feel that it's the lack of any defined lines which prevents me from having a snapshop of the course in my head. On a roadcourse, you see the actual road carved into the grassy/sandy surroundings, u have the colored birms, etc etc, so the brain (mine at least) takes a snapshop of a definite shape. In autox it's just a buncha orange cones scattered around and unless you know where to navigate between them, it becomes a meaningless image. Sounds complicated, but i think that's how my brain sees it. So i just need to work on making that imagine "meaningful" or something like that.
chrono: I'm usually at the events where i don't know many ppl, so i naturally walk it alone. I think what happens as i walk the course is that i'm moving too slowly to feel the turns flow one into the other. Then i get into the car and the course flows too fast compared to when i walked it. I'm always tempted to ride a bike or scooter around the course so that it at least simulates some of the speed. It could be the transition from 3mph walk to 25-60 mph drive that messes me up. So ur advice to visualize driving through each section individually as i stand at each gate, as opposed to visualizing walking through it, might do the trick. Also, trying to visualize a car going around the whole course while pretending to watch that car from the outside, i should try that. I do get a good amount of preparation from working the cones, because i get to see exactly what the cars are doing AND i get to imagine "staying ahead of that car". But usually that works only for the section that i can see from the worker station.
ratt_finkel: yea, course memorization makes up like 50% of my shaved off time from 1st run to best run. The other 50% of shaved seconds is from improving technique for that course. What i find weird is that right after the run, i sometimes can't put the whole thing together in my head. I may remember some sections of it to this day, because i either did really well or really poorly through them, but never the whole course.
I also feel that it's the lack of any defined lines which prevents me from having a snapshop of the course in my head. On a roadcourse, you see the actual road carved into the grassy/sandy surroundings, u have the colored birms, etc etc, so the brain (mine at least) takes a snapshop of a definite shape. In autox it's just a buncha orange cones scattered around and unless you know where to navigate between them, it becomes a meaningless image. Sounds complicated, but i think that's how my brain sees it. So i just need to work on making that imagine "meaningful" or something like that.
^ also, the more you run the more you will realize that most courses are made of of the same basic elements - chicago boxes, sweepers, slaloms, offset gates, etc. You will eventually get to know your fastest way through each obstacle, so then you can concentrate on only remembering the 6 -10 main "events" that happen on the course. It is far easier to memorize these few key elements and what order they come, than it is to memorize 150 individual cones.
EVOlutionary
EVOlutionary
^ That's what I liked about the autocross schools I've been to. They set up different obstacles (180, chicago box, decreasing redius, increasing radius, keyhole, etc.) and had us rotate doing each obstacle many times in a row. Then the next day, they turned those stations into a full fledged course and we ran it to see how to apply what we learned. I was amazed.
Originally Posted by JoizeeX
thanks guys.
chrono: I'm usually at the events where i don't know many ppl, so i naturally walk it alone. I think what happens as i walk the course is that i'm moving too slowly to feel the turns flow one into the other. Then i get into the car and the course flows too fast compared to when i walked it. I'm always tempted to ride a bike or scooter around the course so that it at least simulates some of the speed. It could be the transition from 3mph walk to 25-60 mph drive that messes me up. So ur advice to visualize driving through each section individually as i stand at each gate, as opposed to visualizing walking through it, might do the trick. Also, trying to visualize a car going around the whole course while pretending to watch that car from the outside, i should try that. I do get a good amount of preparation from working the cones, because i get to see exactly what the cars are doing AND i get to imagine "staying ahead of that car". But usually that works only for the section that i can see from the worker station.
ratt_finkel: yea, course memorization makes up like 50% of my shaved off time from 1st run to best run. The other 50% of shaved seconds is from improving technique for that course. What i find weird is that right after the run, i sometimes can't put the whole thing together in my head. I may remember some sections of it to this day, because i either did really well or really poorly through them, but never the whole course.
I also feel that it's the lack of any defined lines which prevents me from having a snapshop of the course in my head. On a roadcourse, you see the actual road carved into the grassy/sandy surroundings, u have the colored birms, etc etc, so the brain (mine at least) takes a snapshop of a definite shape. In autox it's just a buncha orange cones scattered around and unless you know where to navigate between them, it becomes a meaningless image. Sounds complicated, but i think that's how my brain sees it. So i just need to work on making that imagine "meaningful" or something like that.
chrono: I'm usually at the events where i don't know many ppl, so i naturally walk it alone. I think what happens as i walk the course is that i'm moving too slowly to feel the turns flow one into the other. Then i get into the car and the course flows too fast compared to when i walked it. I'm always tempted to ride a bike or scooter around the course so that it at least simulates some of the speed. It could be the transition from 3mph walk to 25-60 mph drive that messes me up. So ur advice to visualize driving through each section individually as i stand at each gate, as opposed to visualizing walking through it, might do the trick. Also, trying to visualize a car going around the whole course while pretending to watch that car from the outside, i should try that. I do get a good amount of preparation from working the cones, because i get to see exactly what the cars are doing AND i get to imagine "staying ahead of that car". But usually that works only for the section that i can see from the worker station.
ratt_finkel: yea, course memorization makes up like 50% of my shaved off time from 1st run to best run. The other 50% of shaved seconds is from improving technique for that course. What i find weird is that right after the run, i sometimes can't put the whole thing together in my head. I may remember some sections of it to this day, because i either did really well or really poorly through them, but never the whole course.
I also feel that it's the lack of any defined lines which prevents me from having a snapshop of the course in my head. On a roadcourse, you see the actual road carved into the grassy/sandy surroundings, u have the colored birms, etc etc, so the brain (mine at least) takes a snapshop of a definite shape. In autox it's just a buncha orange cones scattered around and unless you know where to navigate between them, it becomes a meaningless image. Sounds complicated, but i think that's how my brain sees it. So i just need to work on making that imagine "meaningful" or something like that.
Seriously though, it sounds to me like your region does not chalk the courses. I still even after 2 full seasons have a hard time if there is no chalk outline. You should lobby your region to do chalk outlines. It helps a ton. You might even volunteer to do it for them. Ride with people if your region allows it. Have the "good" drivers run with you. Watch from out side other people run.
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 473
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From: Maple Shade NJ - All ur base r belong to us
Originally Posted by EVOlutionary
^ also, the more you run the more you will realize that most courses are made of of the same basic elements - chicago boxes, sweepers, slaloms, offset gates, etc. You will eventually get to know your fastest way through each obstacle, so then you can concentrate on only remembering the 6 -10 main "events" that happen on the course. It is far easier to memorize these few key elements and what order they come, than it is to memorize 150 individual cones.
EVOlutionary
EVOlutionary
ginkoba's for n00bs, i need some focus-in, like the one Bart Simpson was taking.
they do chalk it up, but depending on the line thickness and pavement color, it doesn't always help. Riding with "leet" (couldn't help it
) drivers will help lots, i just haven't done it because i wanted to see if self-learning will improve my times, and it did, quiet a bit. But it'll only take me so far, getting tips and getting pointers will be the way to go from here. My first event i finished LAST in NGS and overall for that day lol. By my 3rd event i was 3rd out of 10 in NGS (faster than 350z and WRX drivers). Then i moved to GS and it was tougher, but i was slowly improving.Those autox clinics are great to learn in though.
A friend of mine who used to rally race in europe would stab the wheel as he was entering the turn while gettting on the gas, feathering it while the rear end breaks loose and he would slide smoothly through the turn. Amazingly, he would never lose speed while doing this. Truly a master of the evo. I rode shotgun with him at Spring Mountain Raceway and watched his techniques. Simply incredible, he was passing just about every car on the track with his moderately modded evolution. What was funny is his name is Ivo. LoL.
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