Which is faster?
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From: Shenzhen
Originally Posted by astondg
Thgey do slide around a bit in rallying but on bitumen it is mostly in tight the hairpin corners and because the roads are usually a lot narrower then a race track. Some of those corners would require a multipoint turn if they didn't use the handbrake to slide around.
On a race track drifting is slow, a little bit of power oversteer on some corners can be quicker on some of the tight tracks, especially in road cars because of their tyres and the way the suspension is set up, but in a proper race car keeping it straight is the fastest way. F1 is the best example I think, sometimes they do get a little bit of oversteer but that is because they have 700hp+ and it can be a bit tricky to get on the road, they don't "drift" though (from the outside camera you can hardly tell they are sideways).
On the dirt it is the same but a bit more oversteer is ok, still usually not "drifting" (big sideways) unless you have a rally car set up for it. The RWD rally cars have the suspension and everything setup for going sideways (it can actually be harder to not go sideways) but that is also to do with the type of diff they use. They have lockers or even welded diffs for maximum traction on the dirt but then they go sideways more under power. A lot of them also have smaller engines so they have to stay on the power a lot more to keep the speed up, even if it means going sideways and sacrificing a little bit of corner speed.
Aston
On a race track drifting is slow, a little bit of power oversteer on some corners can be quicker on some of the tight tracks, especially in road cars because of their tyres and the way the suspension is set up, but in a proper race car keeping it straight is the fastest way. F1 is the best example I think, sometimes they do get a little bit of oversteer but that is because they have 700hp+ and it can be a bit tricky to get on the road, they don't "drift" though (from the outside camera you can hardly tell they are sideways).
On the dirt it is the same but a bit more oversteer is ok, still usually not "drifting" (big sideways) unless you have a rally car set up for it. The RWD rally cars have the suspension and everything setup for going sideways (it can actually be harder to not go sideways) but that is also to do with the type of diff they use. They have lockers or even welded diffs for maximum traction on the dirt but then they go sideways more under power. A lot of them also have smaller engines so they have to stay on the power a lot more to keep the speed up, even if it means going sideways and sacrificing a little bit of corner speed.
Aston
Uhhhhh! Thanks Aston. That's just what I need. So professional!
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Australia
Well that is my understanding anyway. I have a little bit of experience on dirt and bitumen and I know a few rally drivers but I'm not an expert. I am fairly confident in my answer though.
Aston
Aston
Just remember the Friction Circle (or "G" circle)...
The theoretical goal (though real racing must allow for other factors) is to maintain the highest possible acceleration in the correct direction. Of course the amount of total available tire friction for all possible directions is relatively constant at a given moment.
So...any acceleration change to an additional direction will take available friction from the other directions. Once you exceed the available friction in the lateral direction for instance and slide, there is none left for braking or accelerating forward. You are then ultimately slower than you could have been.
In most cases on a track, the direction that the car is pointed at that moment is immaterial because there is no friction left with which to accelerate forward. The turn exit would then be slower...
Of course there are always other factors...just some thoughts :>
The theoretical goal (though real racing must allow for other factors) is to maintain the highest possible acceleration in the correct direction. Of course the amount of total available tire friction for all possible directions is relatively constant at a given moment.
So...any acceleration change to an additional direction will take available friction from the other directions. Once you exceed the available friction in the lateral direction for instance and slide, there is none left for braking or accelerating forward. You are then ultimately slower than you could have been.
In most cases on a track, the direction that the car is pointed at that moment is immaterial because there is no friction left with which to accelerate forward. The turn exit would then be slower...
Of course there are always other factors...just some thoughts :>
I know this isn't real life, but on most of the tracks on Rallysport Challenge 2 for xBox, I've gotten (by far) my fastest times drifting into the corners so I'm facing the exit direction straight on, but who know how accurate the physics of that game are 
I certainly don't have the ***** or tire-replacement-funds to experiment with it in real life.
I certainly don't have the ***** or tire-replacement-funds to experiment with it in real life.
Originally Posted by SterlingEvo
I know this isn't real life, but on most of the tracks on Rallysport Challenge 2 for xBox, I've gotten (by far) my fastest times drifting into the corners so I'm facing the exit direction straight on, but who know how accurate the physics of that game are I certainly don't have the ***** or tire-replacement-funds to experiment with it in real life.
I certainly don't have the ***** or tire-replacement-funds to experiment with it in real life. Of course they may code in some "fun allowance" as well...not sure. One game note. I have found that the full arcade game from Sega "F355 Challenge" played in manual mode is a pretty accurate simulator. It's gets tough as you can't "feel" what going on in the car. I bet there are some newer ones out there as that one is from 1996...
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From: Westchester County, NY
I dunno about anyone else but I like to put down a fastest lap time. I like completing a course fast, not just a corner, so my exit speed is usually the most important issue of my cornering. Therefore....a slight slip angle, no drift, no counter, just a perfect line or the best one I can find. Your braking point, downshift point, turn in point, and throttle application point are all more important than whether or not you're spinning the tires. I like full traction at the exit pylon cone so I can go WOT and pass a few m3's on the straightaway.
The fastest drivers in the world....drift (minimally) on loose surfaces, grip (as much as possible) on the tarmac. I think we should take that into account.
The fastest drivers in the world....drift (minimally) on loose surfaces, grip (as much as possible) on the tarmac. I think we should take that into account.
It seems pretty simple to me, if drifting through a corner were faster, then these multi-million dollar race teams would do it. I don't have the means to experiment like them, so I let the Pros do the experimenting and I try to emulate them.
Just my 2 cents..
Just my 2 cents..
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Australia
Originally Posted by ez
One game note. I have found that the full arcade game from Sega "F355 Challenge" played in manual mode is a pretty accurate simulator. It's gets tough as you can't "feel" what going on in the car. I bet there are some newer ones out there as that one is from 1996...
. I have only ever seen it at one place nere me and that shut down a few years ago. I even tried looking for one to buy but I haven't found any so far.Aston
Originally Posted by astondg
That is my favourite arcade game! It was great with the gated gear lever and clutch pedal and the sounds were nice too . I have only ever seen it at one place nere me and that shut down a few years ago. I even tried looking for one to buy but I haven't found any so far.
Aston
. I have only ever seen it at one place nere me and that shut down a few years ago. I even tried looking for one to buy but I haven't found any so far.Aston
Not sure about Down Under...we do have quite a few of them here
But it seems like they are mostly still in service producing revenue.The simulation is well done for sure. About as close as you could get to the real F355 feel and sound...
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