Trail Braking
Apr 25, 2014, 08:58 PM
#1
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Trail Braking
I’m not a noob to track, but I am in no way experienced (15 track days over the last 2+ years). What I am wondering is when, and if, trail barking is advantageous in our cars. With my MR (no performance mods), I usually run S-Sport auto with ASC off/on. I’ve experimented with trail braking in two situations:
1) Double apex hairpins (turn 2 at Laguna Seca, turn 7 at Sonoma, and turn 14 at T-Hill) or true hairpin (turn 11 at Sonoma).
2) Long sweeper (turn 2 at T-Hill and turn 6 [carousel] at Sonoma) just to delay braking.
I’ve read in this and other forums that trail braking in our cars is a is a bad idea, but it seems to work. With ASC off/off I can see/feel that it may be dicey. I’d like to hear from the more experienced track junkies opinions on trail braking with our cars.
I know there is a thread with the same name, but it is almost eight years since the last post,
1) Double apex hairpins (turn 2 at Laguna Seca, turn 7 at Sonoma, and turn 14 at T-Hill) or true hairpin (turn 11 at Sonoma).
2) Long sweeper (turn 2 at T-Hill and turn 6 [carousel] at Sonoma) just to delay braking.
I’ve read in this and other forums that trail braking in our cars is a is a bad idea, but it seems to work. With ASC off/off I can see/feel that it may be dicey. I’d like to hear from the more experienced track junkies opinions on trail braking with our cars.
I know there is a thread with the same name, but it is almost eight years since the last post,
May 26, 2014, 11:38 PM
#2
Newbie
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello,
It's been a while since I've posted on here. It sounds like you've been getting some bad advice from people that have more volume to their voice than talent in driving. Don't think I'm being immodest, but I race sportscars professionally and coach at a Mitsubishi Evo school (the one at Sonoma). That said...
Trail braking is ALWAYS used on the track if you're trying to go fast. Ideally, you should use the brake all the way to the apex of any corner, though this doesn't always work with track layout, elevation, etc. People that are saying not to trail brake probably have been caught off guard by the lively nature of the unrestricted (ASC off) Evo. Trail braking works best when A) most of the slowing is done in a straight line, and B) the turn-in is adequately smooth and in sync with the brake release. If you are like the average rally enthusiast Evo owner and are a bit too jerky with the wheel, the brake release can be tricky. If you're calm about things, let your eyes lead the whole process, and release the brake as you wind in some wheel, you'll notice that the car won't always enter every corner sideways, rather it will enter corners super neutral.
A bit about why trail braking is a GOOD idea with the Evo. First off, trail braking simply means you are blending your brake work with your steering work. This is beneficial because the more braking you do after the turn-in point, the less you have to do in a straight line. Thus, the straightaway before the turn is slightly longer, meaning you're on the "go pedal" longer, and will have a shorter lap time. Secondly, but not finally, trail braking loads up the front wheels, which happen to be doing all the work in changing direction. This gives them "command" (unless you lock up a tire, in which case they become non-directional) and will reduce understeer. Now in most cars, the understeer is usually still present, but the Evo is unusually setup from the factory to be quite "loose" when you load up the nose, or rather, it unloads the rear tires under braking quite a lot. Most people that are used to the conventional car will be caught off guard by this effect. The Evo is, in fact, a nose heavy, mostly FWD, functionally AWD car with a high center of gravity. Any extra rotation you get done under brakes is going to benefit you when you try to go to power post-apex. This means you can get the car turned more before the apex, allowing you to come off the corner straighter. It is a myth that AWD helps you "pull" through the corner better. If you're already asking 100% of your front tires to change direction, how can you ask some traction to apply torque? You can't. The only way AWD helps on corner exit is if the car is mostly straight and you've already started to unwind the wheel. The only way this is possible is by letting the car rotate before the apex. Complicated concept, I know. The more you understand it, the better you'll be on the track with your Mitsu.
-Matt Bell
It's been a while since I've posted on here. It sounds like you've been getting some bad advice from people that have more volume to their voice than talent in driving. Don't think I'm being immodest, but I race sportscars professionally and coach at a Mitsubishi Evo school (the one at Sonoma). That said...
Trail braking is ALWAYS used on the track if you're trying to go fast. Ideally, you should use the brake all the way to the apex of any corner, though this doesn't always work with track layout, elevation, etc. People that are saying not to trail brake probably have been caught off guard by the lively nature of the unrestricted (ASC off) Evo. Trail braking works best when A) most of the slowing is done in a straight line, and B) the turn-in is adequately smooth and in sync with the brake release. If you are like the average rally enthusiast Evo owner and are a bit too jerky with the wheel, the brake release can be tricky. If you're calm about things, let your eyes lead the whole process, and release the brake as you wind in some wheel, you'll notice that the car won't always enter every corner sideways, rather it will enter corners super neutral.
A bit about why trail braking is a GOOD idea with the Evo. First off, trail braking simply means you are blending your brake work with your steering work. This is beneficial because the more braking you do after the turn-in point, the less you have to do in a straight line. Thus, the straightaway before the turn is slightly longer, meaning you're on the "go pedal" longer, and will have a shorter lap time. Secondly, but not finally, trail braking loads up the front wheels, which happen to be doing all the work in changing direction. This gives them "command" (unless you lock up a tire, in which case they become non-directional) and will reduce understeer. Now in most cars, the understeer is usually still present, but the Evo is unusually setup from the factory to be quite "loose" when you load up the nose, or rather, it unloads the rear tires under braking quite a lot. Most people that are used to the conventional car will be caught off guard by this effect. The Evo is, in fact, a nose heavy, mostly FWD, functionally AWD car with a high center of gravity. Any extra rotation you get done under brakes is going to benefit you when you try to go to power post-apex. This means you can get the car turned more before the apex, allowing you to come off the corner straighter. It is a myth that AWD helps you "pull" through the corner better. If you're already asking 100% of your front tires to change direction, how can you ask some traction to apply torque? You can't. The only way AWD helps on corner exit is if the car is mostly straight and you've already started to unwind the wheel. The only way this is possible is by letting the car rotate before the apex. Complicated concept, I know. The more you understand it, the better you'll be on the track with your Mitsu.
-Matt Bell
Last edited by MBellRacing; May 26, 2014 at 11:43 PM.
Jun 1, 2014, 03:32 PM
#4
Newbie
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not necessarily the "key". Throttle is obviously the key to a short lap time, and shortening the time spent braking and turning will maximize the time on-throttle. All I'm saying is that you can (and very well should) learn to trail brake as deep into corners as possible. Just practice brake release as often as you can on the track and learn how to affect the balance of the car with the brake pedal. Again, ideally the car should have the brake lights on all the way to the apex of any corner.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jack1526
04-06 Lancer Ralliart How To Requests / Questions / Tips
2
Jul 11, 2011 07:48 PM