Mister2zx3

Females tend to be very expressive in these situations, most males tend to clench real tight and often don't respond to questions while out. I think I prefer the quiet puckered up guys to those that hollar from a less irritating factor, but the loud ones sure are funny to look back on!

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

That is funny stuff

You just never know how anyone will react

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Great post Joe...and I agree that it is a combination of driver and car that are in harmony that will go the quickest in most situations. The reality is that if the driver can adapt to the ideal set-up of the car they will now be going the fastest of all. It is the engineer’s job to set-up the car for the driver’s preferences. It is the driver’s job to insure that their preferences suit the car or some speed will be left on the table.

siegelracing

I hope everybody really understands Chrono's last statement. It's a question of "leaving anything on the table."

That's really the thing behind trail-braking, it's just using what's available.

Trail-braking is simply defined as still being on the brakes when you turn the wheel.

*** Robi *** you still never answered me; Do you really make sure you have ENTIRELY released BEFORE turning the wheel AT ALL? Even on a double apex, or decreasing radius??? I just can't see how that would be fastest.

Certain corner MUST have their slowest point a bit into the corner, therefore you should be braking to that point to be going as fast as each arc segment will allow.

Even the 911 Turbo, with PSM off will still use SOME trail braking, it doesn't need much because the weight in the rear will help rotate it just being off throttle. It does need to be braked in a fairly straight line. The rearward weight will more than make up for it getting off the corner though . Even the loose setup Evo needed a good bit of trail braking to be fastest.

robi

iTrader: (24)

Smogrunner got a good example how I drive maybe he can "rat me out " if I trail brake. I answerd your question in the first two pages...brake, throttle,turn, I work very hard at that exact sequence if it's slower "in theory" so be it Because I'll start paying attention when other evo times get within 2-3 seconds of the RRE times. Till then you may have the "math" on your side, but the clock's still on my side, and at the end of the day the clock is all that counts. Keep working on those chalkboards, ;-). Me I'm using every second I can for "seat time".

Mister2zx3

Why is left foot braking being ignored here, especially for keeping the chassis balanced and the weight where it needs to be? Do all of you dance your right foot from gas to brake while the car coasts between pressing one or the other pedals?

Smogrunner

iTrader: (5)

When I got my E ticket ride with Robi at SOW, he trail braked on every corner except #1. I don't know why he won't admit this.





















Just kidding

Smogrunner

iTrader: (5)

Honestly, I'm such at newbie at road racing, I couldn't say with any confidence whether Robi used a little bit of trail braking or not. I think he did once in a while but not as a rule, more as a correction to regain his favorite line. Is that accurate Robi? If Robi says he doesn't use the technique, then he doesn't.

robi

iTrader: (24)

Heal & toe right foot never really leaves the one to the other ...well usually at the start of braking. ;-)... but once your back on the go pedal using the brake just heats 'em up.
And smoggies right I try to avoid it and have the car setup around not using it...But sometimes you hit the turn in spot with too much speed still and you can cheat a little..But keep cheating and the outside front gets all pissed off and your looking for a snow storm so you can find a use for your plow..

siegelracing

I left foot brake in corners that don't require a downshift, or in any vehicle that doesn't have a clutch, or when I'm in traffic (track traffic), but in a "normal" downshifting corner, there is no way to left foot brake properly that I know of. The left foot has to be clutching...

Some great drivers never use it, but I think they are leaving something on the table. Certain "same gear all the way through" corners are faster with a quick nudge of the brakes and right back to throttle, so left foot braking is a noticeable gain. In traffic it is invaluable to be able to left foot brake when you get off a corner better than somebody in your way. You can stay much closer to a car that doesn't get off the corner as well with a quick tap and especially in a turbo car, not even a complete lift. Certainly big turbo cars can benefit in some places from braking with the left and getting the turbo rolling with the right. I have found this to be true more often with big aftermarket turbos than any kind of factory turbo setup.

urbanknight

iTrader: (14)

Guilty as charged. I tried left foot braking a few times, and it feels so foreign to me when autocrossing (not sure why I feel fine using it in a gokart, but not in a car ) and when I try it on a road course, I find myself slamming on the brakes every time I try to shift, leaving me slowing down in neutral early apexing the corner I know, I should learn these skills some time, but I'm still getting trophies without them.

siegelracing

Rubens Barrichello does not like left braking, in a clutchless formula one car. He can do it, in fact at certain circuits he's a full tenth, almost 2 tenths per lap faster, but he still doesn't feel comfortable with it. I guess if it doesn't affect your finishing order

Some cars don't have pedals that let you left foot brake. But like you said, it's a good skill to have. In certain places it will be faster. For actual wheel to wheel road racing, I can't imagine not using it in traffic.

Mister2zx3

I was just baffeld with all this talk of trail braking, one in which by strict definition of the term, everyone does in my experience. I have never seen anyone who does *EVERY BIT* of braking while straight before turn in on every corner. Some corners of course may work like this given the right track tilts, inclines, cambers, etc.

Since most of this is around a turbo charged car, keeping one foot on the throttle at all times means little to no lag. Either way it's been entertaining! FWIW all of the fastest laps I've run in "qualifying" type environments, left foot braking and trail braking help keep any car's contact patch and thus grip maximized and power more readily available. Even NA cars take a moment to get air flowing again, granted no where near as bad as a turbo car. I always throught anti lag systems ( even those for NA cars) were the responsibility of the driver, made more convenient with all these sequential gear boxes.

How many folks using techniques to slide feet across the brake smoothly to get downshifting and throttle blips done prior to turn in to finish right foot braking and get back on the throttle through the entire corner, using trail braking with your left foot easing up approaching the apex, usually completely releasing the brake just prior to the apex with the left foot and adding more throttle with the right.

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Left foot braking does have a place. certainly many very good autocrossers do it also every good rally driver. On road courses several championship winning drivers do it but (maybe) more championship winning drivers don't. So you can do it but you don't have to (to be fast).

It is just another tool for the driver. It works on an AWD car like driver variable limited slip differentials. As you step on the brake you slow down the less loaded inside wheels as you add throttle and it will help the car tighten the line (kill the dreaded mid-corner understeer). You only need to use it on corners that are long enough that you can't trail brake all the way through to the point you can add power (or you would over slow). You can practice it to develop the feel on the skidpad

siegelracing

Yep, that's pretty much how I feel. Just got done watching F1, when you usually see them lock a tire under braking, it's almost at the apex. So they are clearly trail-braking a car with rearward weight bias quite deep into the corner.... A front weighted, awd car would be that much further. We should look at some video from the dominant awd road race cars like the Audi's or something.

As for the left foot, there are certainly some incredible drivers who don't. Paul would certainly know better than I how many champs don't. If you're learning though, no reason not to try it.