Thanks Robi.

 

what about pressures for RA-1's...I'm talking cold pressures.


Percy

 

Ra1's like the same pressures as stock Cold is a track by track day by day crapshoot.
I usually go 36 front 39 rear cold run 3-4 laps come in to the hot pit and adjust from there.

 

Oh just to add fuel to the fire...siegelracing, do you use the same lines you would with other non-AWD cars? You know the "classic roadracing line" discussed in all the above mentioned texts (2 of which I own and all of which I have read)?

 

Yo all,

Thanks all for the long discussion, and the logical (yet slightly emotional) explaination from chrono. Actually, chrono...talk more, and don't be afraid of what others 'think' if they seem too 'critical' on this board. You've got the experience and most of us are sponges when it comes to knowing what you already know so well about the EVO! We are, I think, the approving, unspoken, majority.

Yes...I am an EVO enthusiast, and for once in my life I feel that I have a car that will treat me right as it treat it right. The EVO is downright communicative with the driver, there is sooooo much to learn.

FYI, from all the 'short' years of driving my little V-Twin 650 around, it never ceases to amaze me that there is always something to learn as driving a 'dynamic' art to begin with. You'll find the same feeling from the ol' GP bike racer rivals Kevin Schwantz and Wayne Rainey. Even tho one is paralyzed and really only enjoys go-cart racing, he still finds something to work on, and enjoys every minute of it.

As far as trail braking goes...it is a technique, probably to be learned AFTER the basics are engrained. I've done it two times on my 650 Twin, and both times, I didn't really think that I was going to be trail braking. What saved me from a trail braking disaster was doing the basics: threshold braking, downshifting, head turn, lean, knee down, minute roll-on throttle, and hit the apex. It just happened that I eased off of the rear brake a little into the turn too late, but I did it smoothly...always feeling my line, and my tires, and using smooth inputs. However, if I didn't do ONE of the basics the bike could have immediately 'oversteered' and put me in a bad situation, it was the fact that I was doing everything else correctly, and the trail braking felt...well...natural.

FYI...watch some motorcycle racing...trail braking gone wrong in that enviroment = at best a low-side (bike slide and usually rider is ok) or more common a high-side and the rider goes superman and usually sprains something or breaks something.

Would I 'want' to do it consistently? Yeah...it would be nice, but to 'enjoy' a track, it is not necessary at this point in my 'amateurism.' Feeling the 'simple' physics is what I really enjoy now, and can continue to improve upon for a long time in the EVO.

Ok...now as 'another' aside. I've had a good time seeing some high-speed vehicle dynamics on a few modern video games. Yeah...its not reality, but I remember some interesting 'concepts' the GT3 A-spec taught me. 1.) Consistency, 2.) Smoothness, 3.) Learning the basics 4.) Car setup.

Yeah...its not the 'real' thing, but it was funny to find myself frustrated for the first two months expecting the 1.5 million credit NSX to just zip around corner at any speed, or being able to correct it mid-corner and get away with it. It doesn't. None of the cars do.

So...I went back to the license portion of the game where you practise 'techniques' and found myself having more fun perfecting technique, rather than getting the baddest ride out there and constently correcting myself. Now I find it just as much fun racing the little mini-cars and trying to 'conserve' energy through a corner, rather than doing the most bad-**** drift out there. Now I can 'finally' control the wicked GT One Toyota without any input help from the Traction Control or the Stability Management. It all started with the basics. Perhaps somebody has had the same experience on this 'virtual' level?

I'm rambling...but I appreciate this quite candid discussion about trail braking. Personally, I'm not going to do it now in the EVO...I need to probably learn a lot more about the basics (and tire setup too.)

Cheers,

jcnel.

 

For stock size 17" RA 1 tires I have found that 40# hot seems to be inferior to around 37-38 hot with front to rear adjusted according to your particular set up.

 

lol, that is classic! I feel sorry for all those stupid pro drivers who do it (what do they know about going fast?). You guys insure that I will have a job as a racing instructor for a long, long time.

 

just a noob here (compared to the expertise that have already offered their opinion)

I wonder if people are confusing trail braking with threshold braking... By reading some of these responses, that seems to be the case.

But what do I know, I am not a professional driver...

 

Thanks for the comments Trail braking can an is taught to begining drivers at most if not all major racing schools, it is harder to teach it afterwards because of ingrained muscle memory.

The nice things about the bikes is the fact the you have a seperate front and rear brake. On the bike only the rear typically is used for trail braking (Back er' in!). All fun stuff

 

Sorry about stealing you "Going Faster" idea ...it really is the new drivers Bible. I'm driving one of the factory Volvo's in GT we are still developing the car so the driving is development and testing for now. We are always looking for good engineers so pm me if you're interested. Oh and good luck getting the understeer exorcised out of the Subie

 

I know Hans Stuck a little, but Derek is my team mate so I know him pretty well.
They are both the nicest most humble guys you will ever meet and will tell the most amazing stories all night long

 

We need people like you to post here more, Anyone can make a evo fast, but to make it handle and drive it well that takes skill.

 

Thanks, I don't claim to know it all when it comes to EVO's but with Shiv's help we have made huge strides in that direction. It is an amazing all around car.

 

No prob at all. At least they noticed yours . I try to get everybody who signs up for my schools to read at least Speed Secrets (it's size is less intimidating ) if they like that I suggest Going Faster. The size of Going Faster makes me worry that they won't read it. Especially as I get some people who aren't sure how much they are going to enjoy a track, but I always describe it as pretty much everything the a new racing driver needs to know about racing.

I'm interested in the engineer position, is this a fly in for the weekend/test days thing or a full-time thing?

The scooby's are quite the conundrum for balance. Without going to toe out in the rear, even the most aggressively setup WRX is smoothly (almost slowly) loose off throttle, but still ever so slightly pushy on throttle. Even autocross national competitors cars are still slightly more pushy than ideal.

The STi's are more on-throttle push resistant, and even just a good alignment can dial up a very well balanced, willing to rotate, even on-throttle car. I've actually set up a STi for drifting . It took a special set of coil overs and bars, but it works. The '05 STi with the true helical front diff is actually quite good even right out of the box. With coil-overs and bars the STi is quite a track car.

Have you gotten an STi on the track yet? Quite fun, almost too easy

One that note, it's funny, I had long said all I wanted was an STi, but now that I have driven so many really nice awd cars on the track, for pure enjoyment, I actually might be more inclined toward something a little more edgy, like an Elise or something. For competition though, the robustness of awd should be hard to beat. But clearly you know that. Do you happen to know Kim Wolfkill, of Road and Track. He loves those Volvo's. He drives in the Porsche cup events a lot. He also ran the Lexus IS300 in Grand Am a few years ago. It might be interesting to have him come play with y'all to get a few pages in the mag... If he does, I want to be the engineer though


Thanks again,
Scott

 

Can go either way...depending on you! We have a very solid F1 guy building the cars so we are looking for individual cars engineers as the cars come on line in the coming weeks.

As for a track car you can do no better than a built early 70's 911. 3.2-3.6l, brakes suspension, cage and seats= IMHO