You hit the nail right on the head!

 

The AFC is a good tuning tool for most applications, especially for its cost. But on the EVO, with just an AFC, you aren't setting up revised timing tables, knock control and a flat Air Fuel ratio like a flash can do. Let alone boost cut or rev limiter changes. Have had over a dozen DSM's over the last 15 years. Now two EVO's. Can't even compare the ECU's in the same sentence. No comparison. EVO ECU is so detuned and much more complicated.
How is cutting back the mass air signal to the EVO ECU going to put you in a safe and powerful area of the timing map? Log it and see, in most cases it won't. Sure throw in larger injectors and lean it out, it will kick out some timing. But it won't be optimum or consistent all of the time.
Am willing to bet that some, if not most, who cry about their newly flashed ECU have other issues going on with the car. i.e. bad gas, worn plugs, boost leaks, boost controller issues, and most important of all, a huge mismatch of components installed on the car.
Few seem to realize the car runs a lot of boost stock, more than most would run on a modded 1g or 2g DSM for pump gas. Then you start cranking it up higher and performance is inconsistent.
I went the flash route on the one EVO. Sure the AFC would gain some power and allow adjustments. But you can't 100% argue with Dynoflash when they have tuned over 1000 ECU's. His database alone to draw from for a customers given level of mods. More often than not his tune is right on the mark.

 

what about this al?, im flashed for just about all the bolt ons you can have. intake, exh, cams, fuel pump, yada yada. Now im going for a 50 trim with some 720 injectors. wouldnt it be best to piggy back the current flash with afc to ajust for the new bigger injectors. beings as your on the other side of the country and all, a custom tune is out. i find it hard to believe you would have a off the shelf tune for such a set-up. i could be wrong tho. I think both together would be the best of both worlds. NO?

 

Wow, seems to be some very knowledgable people on this thread, I would really like to understand what you guys are talking about with all these terms being thrown around that I don't understand, what book/books do you guys recommend to read so I can at least understand this thread?

Thanks, sorry for going OT.

 

I personally only use an S-AFC, but I do not argue that it is better than a flash. The problem I have with a flash is that it is static and cannot be changed on a daily basis. I re-tune my S-AFC all the time according to the weather (temp/humidity) to make sure things are always running smoothly. I also use it at the track when I toss in race gas and increase the boost. I'm sure I could do this just as well with a flash AND my s-afc, but it's not worth it to me to spend the extra money for both or to wait on my ECU to go through the mail. If I really wanted to, I'm sure I could do it over a weekend or a few weekdays when I was going to be out of town and not driving the car or something, but a custom tune is just about completely out of the question.

My results with the S-AFC speak for themselves. My dynograph with 282whp/260wtq looks very similar to the one Al posted here, but on that same dyno the same day, Evos with flashes weren't making any more power than I was, nor did their curves look ANYTHING like the flash curve in this thread. There was only one car making more power than I was, and it was another MR with everything I have PLUS cams, cam gears, and full TBE. The difference was only 17 peak whp, and the onset of torque was not significantly better either, at least not like the comparison in this thread. The flash on that MR was a CUSTOM road tune, also, but there's no way those things are optimum for all weather conditions (summer heat vs winter cold). The S-AFC provides me the flexibility to do what I want when I need to, so it is the best choice for me and many others. Most of us don't argue that the S-AFC is a _better_ tool, just that it serves our purposes more thoroughly.

Most people on flashes don't match my et/mph, but then again there are a few who do...

 

afc sucks

 

Stock

My 2005 runs like a bat out of hell.

.

 

The Ecutek software will allow for larger injector scaling and MAF scaling. We have a few to do here in the comming weeks. As we see how it turns out, we may have some mapping for you until Al can come out to Custom tune for you.
I would NOT use the AFC

 

your saying with whats coming up you may a "mail in" flash based off custom maps from vehicales with similar mods? The only local area tuner with ecutek is PDX tuning and to my knowlage they've never tuned a Evo. only scoobies. So "do it yourself" is important to me.

 

Yes, you're probably right. If I had a flash, I could probably run 11.2 instead of 12.2 with this little cat-back I'm using...

 

There is no way to "do it yourself"
You can however install the ecu yourself if that is what you mean.
I have a few Evo's right now that are going with upgraded turbos along with the EcuTek flash. At that point we will be able to provide some good base mapping to the customer until Al can come out to custom tune for you.
What I may do is share the file with Al and have you guys contact him. That way everything gets done thru one vendor. Al, Travels much more frequently and will have no problem taking care of the customer on a timely basis.

 

do it!

 

In this case study, who tuned the SAFC-II?

 

i know several heads that have the flash and use the afc on top of it

 

This is a pretty heated discussion...I have to say that the only reason I haven't gotten flashed is like others is this discussion, I like the flex of the safc II. Really if you wanted to control timing, there are some Apex'i ITC's hanging around that someone could buy.