Out of curiosity, what is wrong with a Superflow dyno? It is a load bearing dyno and it gives instantaneous/real-time readouts of all parameters (air/fuel ratio,torque,hp,etc).

strike

 

I didn't say anything was wrong with the dyno. I said it wouldn't be ideal for Al to tune on. Al prefers Mustang Dynos and Dynojets and will be able to provide the best tuning results in the most efficient and timely manner possible if we use one of those. The only one of those types in the area is MAC, hence the quoted statement...

 

I too would like some enlightenment as to why a LOAD-bearing dyno which is how the factory tunes these cars is too difficult for your tuner to tune on?
My guesses are:

The dyno at MAC is known to give extremely high and inaccurate HP readings, and your tuner needs to show good numbers to make people feel better about the money they spend. The realty is, you cannot race a dyno sheet. Have fun paying high prices and getting high inaccurate readings at MAC.

I find it hard to believe that any knowledgable tuner would want to work on a Dynojet over a Superflow or any other load bearing dyno. Sure, Dynojets give "numbers", but what good are numbers if they have no real meaning. Every tuner I know, from our in-house tuner to Jason from AEM, George and G at Motec, Devin Pearce formerly of Payne Tech, etc prefer a load bearing type dyno for tuning. Madcap Racing Engines, for example, who build everything from restoration engines making 300hp to Pro Stock beasts making 1400+ hp use and tune on a load bearing engine dyno daily, and while they can afford any dyno in the world, they choose Superflow.
If you want TRUE and repeatable dyno results, we are here to serve. If you want numbers you can feel good about but have no bearing in reality, well, you know where to go.

Also on a personal note Clay, after all of your repeated PMs and Messages to me, and your talk of personal sponsorships, and how you are the key to starting an EVO presence in the Rocky Mountains, the underlying message I get with this definitely shows your true colors. I truly hope that is not consistant throughout the EVO community.

 

That was a somewhat regrettable post there that was rife with mistaken assumptions, but since I know you're new to this community and are not familiar with my stance on such matters as dyno "numbers" nor the fact that Al does a ton of tuning on Dave Buschur's low-reading Mustang Dyno, I will respond accordingly.

This is just a simple case of not having experience on that particular dyno and not wanting to learn what means what on that dyno in the middle of trying to fine-tune a bunch of Evos on a tight schedule. Al has logged hundreds and hundreds of hours on both Mustang Dynos and Dynojets, then he has also road tuned many cars that then were put on Mustang Dynos and Dynojets to ensure the results (and vice versa). Having this much practice with those particular dynos has allowed Al to provide easily-repeatable results in a timely fashion. Not once have I said anything negative about the Superflow dyno. I know it's a load-bearing...just like the Mustang dyno that I mentioned everytime I said Dynojet and that I also mentioned does not exist in the Denver area (thus the Dynojet choice).

"Numbers" are of no concern. The only concern is providing an awesome tune that is powerful, safe, and reliable. Al does most of his tuning on the road anyway. I was only trying to set up a combo tuning session along with a dyno for the benefit of those who may request dyno tuning over road tuning. Also, it was to show some before/after gains, if possible. Anyone who knows me in person or on this forum knows that I am a major proponent of actual results at the track and couldn't care less whether I hit 400whp on an uncorrected Dynojet or 280whp on the Buschur Mustang Dyno. All I care about is that extremely low ET and very high trap speed on the scoreboard.

I can't say I know what you meant by referring to my "true colors." My intentions are known by all, because I am open and honest about what I do and how I operate. I carry myself in a very professional and ETHICAL MANNER, so it does pain me to see such comments made in reference to me. It is quite insulting, but I realize that you just don't know anything about me or Al, which is why you made these hasty comments, so I will contain myself.

 

relax my friend

I prefer ROAD tuning

I am very reluctant to attempt tuning someone's car in one or two hours on ANY strange dyno - especially a totally new brand of dyno i have never tuned on before

Clay wanted to host the event at your facility and it was I who told him that I - (the tuner) am not familar with your brand of dyno and I dont want to experiment on my customer's cars

When using ANY dyno i could care less what the numbers are - the dyno is a tool which attempts to simulate a real world loading condition. In my experience different dynos render a load in difefrent manners and I have to adjust my tuning accordingly. I prefer to work on dynos i have particular hands on experience with - e.g. Mustang or Dyno jet

I would hate to tune 8 cars on a dyno and find out that all the tunes need to be altered to match how the car loads on the road

I once tried to do a dyno day on a dynopak dyno and it was a total nightmare. Each and every car has to be tuned on the road and then put on the dyno for some strange "numbers", since then i have elected to stick to dynos i know and road tuning only

I think the best way to proceed on your dyno would be to conduct a small session when i come out to CO and tune one car there and then take the same car on the road and log some data and determine how confortable I am with that dyno and if i can feel confident tuning on it.

I am very fussy about the work that i do and I am very particular about how I do it.

What ever conotation you have applied to Clay is not warranted. he has been a strong supporter of your dyno and shop - it is I who are cautious.

Just for refernce to the customers in CO - I aways prefer ROAD tuning so I know the tune is right, its repeatable on real roads and its safe.

Saftey of the tune, engine longeivity and smoothness are my main criteria. Power a car makes on the dyno is not even on my radar screen.

 

Al,
do you think you can tune the revolver cams with your flash?

 

Thanks for the clarification. I am trying to learn how to tune and I am interested in using the dyno at CarZ. Having the venue change based on dynos had me worried that I might have been selecting the wrong dyno to use. It is clear that there is nothing wrong with the dyno, it is all just a familiarity issue. I am sorry if my innocent question spawned any hard feelings.

strike (Dave)

 

Get this darn thread back on topic guys. Everyone knows dynos are superflous things that "sort of" simulate real driving. Now quitcherbeatchin and realize that Al is one of the best in the business, with that, I am in. schedule me for march 4th 12-2pm road and dyno. what a waste of a year waiting and using this as my first post........

 

sign me up for 10-12 on the 4th, just sent my deposit.

 

Hmm... Dynopak dyno. I can see why you had problems. I am sorry that you have not discovered a SuperFlow dyno yet. Yes they are not as popular as DynoJets and Mustang Dynes. SuperFlow is based out of Colorado Springs, Colorado which is only 60 miles south of where my shop is. Through the 20 years that Madcap has been open, SuperFlow was the #1 choice for us. Why? Because of accuracy and simulating real world conditions is on the top of their priority list. When it came time for us to buy a chassis dyno two years ago, it was simple decision. Yes, SuperFlow is proud of what they produce but they stand behind their products and are known for being deadly accurate and consistant.

The amount of information you can plug into a SuperFlow dyno is almost endless. I could tell the dyno what size the wheels are, size of the tires, front wind drag, weight of the vehicle and so on. With a SuperFlow dyno it does not matter which gear you would perform a test in. They do not measure acceleration like DynoJets do. There are stress gauges on the axles that measure how much torque is being applied to the rolls. I have seen NASCAR guys (who use DynoJets) change their rear-end gears on my dyno expecting to pickup 50whp but guess what happend. The dyno gave us numbers that were as consistant as the numbers with the taller gears. They asked me "whats wrong with your dyno". I simply stated we are not looking for acceleration, we are looking for accuracy on what the engine is producing. Ask any drag racer. Horsepower is speed while torque is E.T.

There are seven different tests that you can perform with a SuperFlow dyno and you could even measure any thing you wanted to and plot it on a graph. Sure it might take awhile to hook up EGT's, oil temp, oil pressure, fuel pressure, boost, tranny temp, water temp, intake air temp and so on. The key thing I am trying to explain here is how well a SupeFlow dyno can simulate road conditions. Sure, when I get a RWD car on the dyno I put all four wheels on the dyno and yes, the front wheels spin along with the rear wheels. Why? Cause we are simulating real world conditions.

Anyways, I could be preaching to the wrong choir here but I have learned so much from the fine people at SuperFlow. Hopefully by March AEM will come through with an ECU for the Evo IX. If not I would like to invite you to my shop for a flash on my Mivec ECU and learn what a great tool SuperFlow has produced.

 

Hey Lucas,

Had fun on the superflow last week with my blue evo. I also wanted to use your dyno, since I was already there and had such a good time. Anyway it's really nice Al said he might be able to cruise over and check out the dyno, since hes nevered used one. Another cool move by AL.
Nice job AL!

 

That's all fine and dandy about the Superflow, and hopefully Al will be interested in coming to check it out. I think testing it out while tuning your IX would be a pretty cool idea. Al personally just prefers to do all road tuning. It was only by my request that the thought of combining this tuning trip with a dyno came about. I really like getting local shops involved with the tuning trip while getting lots of Evos to the shop for both the tune and for some parts/service/interaction. Even if we don't do any dyno TUNING, I would still like to set it up at a shop, and if there is no dyno tuning, then there would be no reason not to do it at CarZ. I am en route from DC to CO right now, so after we get settled in, I'll be making phone calls to negotiate deals.

I do appreciate all the info on the Superflow, but I'm still a bit taken aback by the questioning of my character. That bothers me more than anything else that could have been said...

 

this is pretty gay that someone trolls in on a thread that doesnt concern him, sets his own deadline on something and then all of a sudden a plan shifts... most of us were set up on march just waiting to see if things would fall thru. now we have at least 5 maybe more that wont get flashed in march now and if we set a later date we are going to go thru this same mess again. im sure al appreciates wartallon setting things up for him, but screwing us in raleigh because he wants to set up some stuff....the process is a pretty shady deal.... If we have the 5 you needed, their trip should be pushed back to the 13th 14th instead of ours...... this is bad business

 

bigric09> isn't this something that could be handled by pm before bringing it to the boards?
if you have an issue w/ Al, DynoFlash and/or Warrtalon be a man and bring it to them VIA PM before you start trolling our boards, please.

lets keep this OT.

 

This is little over an 8 hour drive for me.. I am thinking about coming.. I will know for sure in a couple days or less.