Yeah it is. That's where I have mine. Maybe a bad probe?

 

EGT temps can be high even runing rich if you don't have enough ignation advance for a complete burn. In other words the mainfold is hot enough to burn the unburned fuel even after it exits the port. Witch would increase EGT were the sensor is.

Safe on pump gas I would say is 1500f-1600f. IMHO EGT is one tool to ref for tuning but it does not replace a ture wide band 02.

Now can you post a link to were you read this stuff from "Vishnu Camp"

Again IMHO
Eric

 

WEll around here in Dallas there are not many shops that know what the hell they are doing especially in regard to EVO's. I just a a Vishnu STage 1 with a Dynoflash Stage REV. I don't beat on the car all that hard but when I just drive around town no racing or anything the EGT hovers around 4-5 and when I get on it it reaches 580-590. I don't have a custom map just the off the self one supplied on the website. I have the DEFI gauges. SO how can I tell if I am running rich or if the probe is bad???

 

Maybe I didn't articulate myself correctly there, by Vishnu camp I simply meant that I have seen a number of posts from Shiv as well as others claiming that Al's timing is "wacked" among other things. No bother in searching for actual posts as I respect both sides. To be honest I posted this thread simply to gain some sort of idea as to what Dynoflash users are seeing. A rich mixture, lower boost, and now evidence of EGT temps at load within safe limits simply enhances my confidence in the Dynoflash brand.

 

580-590 sounds low to me. You should relocate the probe to 3-4" away from the exhaust port in order to get some numbers you can use.

 

Well if you feel good about your egts then I guess your fine

 

The posts you have seen by other tuners are all false and patently transparent attempts to slander me and my product. I am glad you can see through the forest and have taken the time to figure out the reality of the situation. IN MOST CASES it is imposssible to run excessive timing on Evo 8's as the factory ecu will hear engine noise and PULL timing in certain areas. As a result we actually run very conservative timing numbers to keep the car smooth.

On the other hand - we see many tuners running very LEAN mixtures with retarded timing as a result of ecu induced retardadtion of timing in the high load zones - its obvious that this combination yields super high EGT's

My tuning method of rich mixture and slightly advanced ign timing makes for very low and safe egts

 

I run around 800 C on the highway and around 700 C around town. From what I can tell, that seems to be in the safe range. I have a Buschur Stage 4 and Flash.

 

That seems fine when your ignition advance is within a couple degrees of stock and you have enough time for the knock sensor to pull timing and save you.

But what happens when you are running timing significantly advanced from stock, and there is a big detonation event well before TDC. With the piston so far from the top of its travel, that pressure has to go somewhere yeah?

Would it be safe to say that richer tunes with more aggressive timing, are generally safer than most, but when they fail they fail more catastrophically?

 

Its interseting to see how you and the other Vishnu elements like to keep harping on this. First of all - the Dyno Flash has more conversative timing that other reflash and piggy back products which I have personally tested. IT IS FALSE TO INSINUATE that the Dyno Flash uses more "agressive timing" than other tuning solutions. In fact the Dyno Flash uses near stock timing levels on many applications.

Unlike other tuning products - the Dyno Flash has virtually unlimited set ups which we supprot from a bone stock 91 octane cali Evo to a giant turbo large injector modified evo on race fuel.

Depending on the particular configuration of the car we are tuning the timing may range from slightly lower than stock to several degress advanced.

With over 600 individual custom and through the mail reflashes out there since last fall - so far we have seen ZERO incidents of any of these failures which you guys keep illuding to.

I see ZERO potential of tuning related failures with the Dyno Flash as all the maps are super conservative and leave a lot of power on the table in the interests of providing a good margin of saftey.

Finally - please relaize that the stock factory knock protection functions - which we leave FULLY FUNCTIONAL and OPERATIONAL - (unlike some other tuning solutions) - provide an EXCELENT protection against over advanced timing. If there is any detonation the ecu immediately pulls back timing.

The fact that our tunes and dyno sheets are so smooth is becuase we tune UNDER the factory knock threshold and avoid ANY knock activity that could trigger the ecu pulling timing.

When you see dyno sheets from other that are filled with a bumpy curve with lots of dips and bumps - thats the factory knock sensor doing its thing. Very often, we see even stock cars running almost no timing at all. With our tuning methods we can make a decent amount of power under the stock knock threshold while maintaining a very large margin of saftey.

I think our reliability record speaks for itself

 

Please don't turn this into a "Vishnu is picking on me" thing - I run Vishnu parts, not propaganda, and was just trying to get your take on the timing issue because I've seen your ignition advance data logs.

Thanks for kind of answering my question.

 

This is a really good topic. I have some questions about this too. When I first got my EGT gauge installed, it would sometimes go as high as 700c but generally stayed around 550c-600c. This was with RC 660 injectors, fuel rail, full 3" exhaust , HKS intake and AEM EMS.

After adding the HKS 264 cams, gears and IC, I rarely see the tems go to 500c and they tend to hover in the 300c area.... This might be another indication that either I'm running way too rich, the timing is too retarded or the probe/gauge have gone bad....

Oh yeah, I really, really don't want to read any more about Vishnu or Dynoflash. Please lets stay on topic and get some pertinent and usefull discussion going on about EGTs, what they are, what they should be and what do they mean as to the state of tune of the car. I would like to know if high EGTs are concurrent with knock and more importantly, do low EGTs mean that the engine cannot knock?

 

Low EGTs represent an engine which is running safe and cool. Neither too rich nor too lean with proper timing advance. High EGTs can lead to detonation and overall deterioration of the engine itself over time. Fuel is an anti detonant therefore the engine itself can run more advance for limited periods with improper timing, often referred to as fuel dumping. High EGTs can be a result of an overly rich condition with excessive unburnt fuel or an overly lean condition. A friend of mine blew his carburated 350 V8 due to high in cylinder temps which led to the failure of an exhaust valve after running in overly rich condition for an extended period. I personally have no method of monitoring EGT temps at present although I plan on getting an EGT sensor in when I change my manifold. Thanks everyone for your responses and participation in this topic, I think this is a good resource.

 

Thanks, good answer. It was pretty much what I thought based on reading and talking about this topic. The questions remains about what is an ideal range for EGTs read from a proble set about 3" away from the head in the exhaust manifold at the nuumber 1 cylinder.
I would like to know also if EGTs can be too low? What's too low? If that's the case, what is the cause and the "cure"?

 

Low EGTs are a tuner's dream. They leave room for fuel to be pulled at certain rpm points. As previously mentioned the general rule of thumb is not to exceed 900C or so at load points. The numbers posted by Dynoflash users at cruise and WOT/LOAD seem to illustrate Al's tuning as easily slotting into the same realm. Ultra low egt temps are the trademark of an extremely conservatively tuned car. The cure? more boost, less fuel, more advance until you hit that sweet spot.