Well, I don't know about other states, but "Clean" certified cars are allowed to use HOV lanes, there are tax breaks, and other benefits.

Not that being legal is a top priority for a majority of people. But in order for these conversions to have some level of legitimacy, there has to be some desire to "help the environment" besides performance advantags.

Though there is enough data out there that the emissions from e85 aren't all that much cleaner than any other combustion, at the least its a domestically produced renewable resource.

 

E85 has not been shown to "eat" moddern day rubbers, because there are not true rubber any more they hold up alot better. Wisconsin is pushing E85 pretty hard and there are many place that carry it. I have run E85 for 6 months in a stock 1995 jeep cherokee 4.0L with 146K.. other then cold starts there are no problems with the vechile and the fuel pump is in great shape after about 15k of e85 or 50/50 mix of 87 and e85. Remeber e85 a/f is 11.2ish so it does learn out the engine which with out tuning can damage it. that beening said i know that i can and must likely am doing some damage to the engine but the jeep engine is built well and can take alot of ****. also that is why i like to run a 50/50 mix and i see the best gas milage and performance off that. 50/50 mix i get about 15-16 for an avg and about 16-17 on 87 for an avg but when i run all e85 i get 14.
I did the testing on the beater jeep before i wanted to run it in the evo... that being said i havent had any problems with them and have about 4k on the evo and 15k on the jeep.

The biggest plus side to run it for and evo or any turbo vechile is the octane rating of 105 which lets you run 2-4 psi more then 93 with the same mods.

 

Hi,

Just some comments on E85 and alcohol fuels in general as response to some of the posts here:

E85 does NOT corrode the pipelines. The problem is that alcohol and water freely mix, while gasoline does not mix with water. In the existing gas pipelines there are many pockets where crud and water has accumulated, but that does not create a problem because the gasoline/diesel does not mix with it and carry it with it. Alcohol would dissolve the crud and water, and so the stuff that would come out the pipeline on the other end would not be usable for quite a while.

Flex fuel vehicles are an inefficient way of using E85 or alcohol fuel. The superior combustion properties of alcohol can't be taken advantage of if the static CR has to be low enough for gasoline operation. If a vehicle would be designed for pure alcohol or E85 use, mpg figures would be the same or better than the gas engine. (mp$ figures a LOT better). An alcohol engine can be made more efficient than a gas engine. That more than compensates for the lower energy content.
See these links for 2 ways to achieve efficiencies comparable or better than diesels and close to that of a hybrid:

http://lfee.mit.edu/public/LFEE%202006-01%20RP.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/presentation...-isaf-no55.pdf

Pollution and greenhouse gas emissions with alcohol fuels are a lot less. First of all, the carbon in the resulting CO2 emission is basically recycled. It comes from the CO2 already in the atmosphere, taken up by the plants in the previous growth cycle. Modern Ethanol plants use the leftover plant material to power the distillation and make the rest up with natural gas, which has a much lower carbon content than for example oil. Also, the hydrogen to carbon ratio of ethanol is 3, for gasoline its about 2.25. So more of the energy of the burn comes from hydrogen in ethanol. The hydrogen fraction only produces H2O as combustion product. Alcohol flame front temperatures are also significantly lower, which causes less NOx production.

In CA for example CARB is still investigating "evaporative emission" effects of alcohol fuels and does not allow the widespread availability of E85 until that is thoroughly studied. What they forget is that our natural environment is since millions of years adapted to alcohol evaporative emissions. Every ripe fruit that drops and rots has its sugar converted to alcohol by yeast bacteria in the soil. That alcohol also evaporates with NO pollution controls. The alcohol emissions produced that way are many times larger than what could possibly be released if all cars were converted to alcohol.

In my opinion alcohol fuels, expecially when using higher methanol fractions, can be very much the energy carrier of choice in the future. More so than hydrogen fuel cells. Their efficiency of energy conversion "well to wheel" and effects on greenhouse gas emissions is better than with a hydrogen economy. Especially if we convert to only methanol. Methanol can be used instead of oil also in plastics manufacturing with existing technologies. As plastics are long lived, methanol fuel production would then actually take more carbon out of the atmosphere than its use releases.

- Klaus

 

In Colorado, the issue of E85 is being pushed like nobodys business. Currently, there is 4 plants that manufacturer E85, and more than 50 fields of corn to back it up. They claim there will be 10 total, with over 100 corn distributors. In our case, E85 is the next wave and the state is pushing it hard. Everything is kept here so we get the cheapest price... I recently seen E85 (with a station opening soon 15 blocks away from me!! WOOHOO) at $2.39 a gallon! Im ready to switch now!

So obviously people called in to ask, "When will we run out of supply?". And their answer to that is: "Colorado has ALWAYS grown thousands of acres of corn. There are many farmers ready for the HUGE demand. They are already preparing their land for even more production. So to end this off: I dont see us ever having an issue with corn, or the production of Ethanol. It is the next best fuel we have come across" (this was on the radio, dont remember the talk show, but one of those morning shows discussing the world/economy/Colorado and such).

There is TONS of tax breaks for hybrid/flex fuel owners. One of my customers, picked up a Prius just before the tax break was gettin axed (few months before April) and got a $4300 tax break! I was like, WTF... holy crap. Thats huge. He told me he screwed up though... cause if it was purchased before Jan 07, it would have been $6600! Oops!

This will be a HUGE economy boost for Colorado, and chances are we will get the variances of E70, E85 and E98. BIG boost and cheap gas. Any modders dream... I cant wait .

 

Sadly it seems that neither the federal government nor local governments have e85 on the radar.

I work for a large branch of a NYC agency and nowhere is e85 even mentioned.

Altogether all the branches of NYC government have thousands of vehicles ranging from firetrucks, garbage trucks, tractor mowers, Honda Civics, to Chevy Suburbans.


The push has been for hybird vehicles.



Here's some personal experience:

I was issued a brand new Mercury Mariner hybrid back in April and through the 4+ months of driving the car I can safely say that mileage is pathetic.

Most of the driving is local, which requires a lot of braking thus charging the car's battery, and at best I've seen at best 320 total miles on a full tank of 15 gallons.

That works out to a paltry 21.3 mpg versus the factory claim of 32 mpg city .



I've noticed ever worse mpg in the past 2 months with the usage of AC.

If you have the AC or fan on the gas engine stays on all the time, which decreases mpg.



The gas engine is active at speeds above 10mph with the electric motor handling sub 10mph duties.

Basically at a stop with the car idling, the car is dead silent because the gas engine is off.


Hybrids are not the answer and are just a way for auto manufacturers, politicians, and environmentalists to put a bandaid on the problem.

e85 is not the answer either; it's main benefit is not environmental but economical and political.

 

its so weak making fuel from corn. now sugar cane is another story.

 

This is an excellent thread. I don't currently have the heavy mods and power Evo owners who are running most E85 do, but nevertheless I am just as interested in running it in my car, and the prospect of widespread alternative fuels in general. But getting caught with an "illegal, in my car at least, fuel" does not sound appealing. What would the charges and fines be?


Malibujack, sorry if I missed it, but how were you threatened? I'd love to hear more about what you have been doing or trying to do, perhaps I can pick your brain via PM. We need to see some strong advocacy on this.

 

http://www.epa.gov/SmartwayLogistics...tsheet-e85.htm

E85 & Conventional Vehicles
Consumers should never use E85 in a conventional, gasoline-only vehicle. This can lead to a range of problems, including not being able to start the engine, damage to engine components, illumination of the check engine light, and emissions increases.

It is technically possible to convert a conventional gasoline vehicle to run on E85; however, such conversions would likely be illegal unless they are certified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). To date, EPA has not certified any E85 conversions. In addition, converting a conventional vehicle to E85 may violate the terms of the vehicle warranty. For more information on the vehicle conversion process, please visit EPA's Web site at: www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/cisd0602.pdf (22 pp, 152 K, About PDF)

 

n/m

 

In Brazil they're all running on E100.
E85 doesn't polute. Combustion of ethanol produces CO2 and H20. I also read that CO2 is, as Klaus also said, recycled CO2 - taken in by plants and re-released during ethanol combustion. I bet you'd pass smog easily running E85. Running E85 on NA cars will become more appealing if auto makers start making higher compression engines.

As for legality. What government worker is going to go around testing fumes coming from your gas tank? But I understand what MalibuJack is saying. His case is different regarding legality.

Lastly, I never knew what E85 was. I always saw it mentioned on forums here but never looked into it. The other day I saw a commercial for Ford or Chevy where they mentioned their models are capable of running E85 so I decided to research it. Now I'm all for it, eagerly waiting for a station near me.