99% of people who switch is because it's a cheap "race gas"

but there's alot of plus's too because if we can eventually use to it break away from oil, it's win-win for all the people that have been suffering from the oil monopoly bull-ish

 

http://www.nationalledger.com/cgi-bi...e=24&num=19940

http://chemicallygreen.com/truth-abo...nol-subsidies/

Can't argue with "cheap race gas" but the rest is BS.

 

I switched mostly thanks to its performance enhancements. Closest station for me is 15 miles away, 10 of which is highway miles so its really convenient for me.

Coming from 326whp/317wtq on pump 93 octane to 385whp/403wtq on E85 on a extremely conservative tune is just downright exhilarating!

 

There's a few points to be made here.

First, you're right about corn subsidies not being an especially bright idea. As I mentioned above, we're sitting on 1.62 BILLION bushels of corn that are rotting on the ground right now because there's no market for it. That's excess production that we all helped pay for, and got no return on. Bad investment. In 2006, we lost about $900M on that deal.

Second, the largest available subsidy is for ethanol/petroleum mixtures, not for corn production, to the tune of about $2.5B in 2006. Sort of a strange thing, but there you have it: no matter where the ethanol came from, it's fair game for this subsidy. That levels the playing field a bit for much more reasonable sources of ethanol production: cellulosic and algae sources look the most promising today. I'm relatively comfortable with this subsidy, mainly because it's implementation agnostic. (I think basing it on a mixed product, rather than ethanol directly, is a little odd, but it could be considerably worse.)

Third, there's more to ethanol production than just "cheap race gas". The value proposition here is creating a sustainable domestic source for the lion's share of our (unbelievably hefty) fuel needs. This is a simple strategic move at the federal level, and replacing our entire petroleum requirement isn't necessary to achieve success on that front. Saying "just go electric" misses the non-automotive wins to be had with a solid domestic fuel source, and the "gap" (short-term) wins to be had in the automotive world.

Now, you can argue about the strategic value of reducing our dependance on non-renewable, non-domestic, high-emissions fuels, and I'll keep my nose out of that debate. But at least take some time to understand why some of us support this line of development beyond just "mo boost, yo".

 

This is a good thread. I am planning on running E85 since we just got it locally b/c of more power and better spool up (increased mass flow) but this makes me more aware of the battle with getting more of the country on ethanol.
It is going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

The US farm industry in general has been subsidized by the federal government for decades, as a means to protect them from the wild pricing swings in the food market. So its not that corn farmers alone are being subsidized to make ethanol, they've always been subsidized as far as I can recall.

One of the benefits of ethanol, I would think, is that if we can get the US farmers in on the energy game, then in the long run, there wouldn't need to be any subsidies, so we and take that $$ and use it elsewhere.

A lot of the arguments against ethanol I find, are based on science and economics of several years ago. Ethanol got a bad rap for the rise in food costs, when in fact it was the oil prices that contributed to that more than anything.

I have a sneaky feeling that those trying to shoot down ethanol have their own agenda and are trying to push either electric, hydrogen, natural gas, etc. (I also have a feeling they are a bunch of car hating #@ who probably hate the fact that people are enjoying the performance side of biofuels..)

 

If it's so great let the private sector pay for it. Free Enterprise system anyone?

Over the past twelve years, taxpayers have spent $56 billion on corn subsidies paid to over 1.5 million recipients, making it the top crop for federal assistance.

Like Logic said,
"we're sitting on 1.62 BILLION bushels of corn that are rotting on the ground right now because there's no market for it. "

 

2007: $3 billion ethanol subsidy reduced US trade deficit more than $20 billion.

"US ethanol subsidies, totaling $3 billion, have resulted in a $6 billion reduction in crop price supports and a $15 billion drop in US oil imports."

"Good grains demand increased by 28 million tons, and ethanol uses only 4 percent of world grain production."


Why Support the Corn Ethanol Program?

 

e85 is the greatest. im looking at 20+ mpg already and still have a heavy foot(mpg will get better as soon as i stop hauling *** because my car is fast as ***** now!).

plus a HUGE torque and hp increase.

and hahaha! 2.70 a gallon!!! take that you 3.83 per gallon oil company/government.

 

Wow! Is most of your driving down hill? That's terrific mileage for E85.

 

I'm very tempted to run e85 but after taking a class on our environmental circumstances. I probably never will. Do some research on the topic and maybe you'll think twice about using e85. Politicians still argue about the use of e85 but the scientific community have come to a consensus on it being one of the dumbest things ever done. If you don't feel like doing the research heres the short version. You stick corn in you gas tank, drive up demand for corn, drive up price of food, farmers ignore other crops to grow corn, decrease demand of rice/barley/wheat and thus you drive the price of those up as well. At first nobody noticed cause these food prices were only directly affecting third world countries. But who cares about them right? then we noticed our rice/wheat prices going up, and all of a sudden, its like holy **** man WTF??? Furthermore, this whole idea of alternative fuel was suppose to alleviate our dependence on oil in some way or form right? But has it? Are we now less dependent on oil? Has E85 provided us with any positive effects as a society aside from making it cheaper to run faster at your local drag strip?

 

Not very well educated about the first quote to make any sort of comment on it.

But the second statement seems positive until you factor in the fact that 15 billion dollars for oil imports equates to what? a week or two of oil reserves if you take into account how much oil we use as a nation?

And the third quote is just plain misleading. Demand for grains goes up by 28 million tons. thats telling us what? Simply that the world demands MORE GRAINS. And yet we're sticking grains in our gas tanks. And by the way 4 percent of the worlds grain supply is ****ing HUGE. thats enough to feed a small country. Especially when you consider the fact that 4 percent in WORLD grain supplies has almost a neglible impact on our own oil demands. BTW, these are from my class notes. if you want the sources, i'll email my professor and he can have sources for you.

 

E85 has excellent potential for reducing our dependence of foreign oil. The whole thing with corn for food vs for fuel is rapidly becoming an old, irrelevant argument. Corn can never come close to providing the amount of E85 that we would need to fuel a majority of vehicles in the USA with E85. Right now, corn is just providing a means to test out the E85 concept. We'll need to switch over to algae-based production of ethanol for a true E85 fuel economy.

 

Again, you need to get off the corn argument, Its pretty much widely accepted that for ethanol to be a viable source of fuel, it needs to come from other sources. There are plenty of other ways it can be made, and there are already breakthroughs in ethanol production that make it cheaper to produce, as well as more efficient to produce. Corn based ethanol is only short term. Bio-mass and cellulosic ethanol is the future.

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/resource/cellulosic/

http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/18227/


To be clear, I don't think ethanol is the "silver bullet" to our energy needs, however it is a viable alternative. I also believe that there is no one "silver bullet" solution for energy needs, and to think otherwise, is looking down the wrong path.

 

Everyone knows the Canada is the #1 oil supplier to the US right? Mexico is #2. Mid East is #3 and has been for years. We are draining the Mid East dry.

Screw the cars and alt fuels. They will go electric one day. What concerns me is aviation. The whole industry is based on diesel fuel. Trucks? Trains? Our infrastructure is based on diesel. Any large means of producing bio-diesel has to go towarsds changing that first.

Who knows how to make an Electric Jet? We will make billions. Where will the electricity come from. Oh right..wind. Theres a good idea.

You know what? This is a horrible topic and its making me pull my hair out.

DRILL DRILL DRILL and give me Nuclear Power Plants!!

I would fart in my gas tank if it made good power.