Here is some research your professor may have missed. A Billion Acres

 

the argument is not that ethanol is taking up the useable farmland. There can be an infinite amount of farmland but it would be a moot point if there is a finite number of farmers wouldn't you agree?
The argument is that there is a finite number of farmers who grow corn. Prices have gone up on other crops because these finite number of farmers have more financial incentive to fuel the stuff to use ethanol.

So the rebuttal of well there are a billion acres out there doesn't really play into the argument. If there suddenly appeared 1 billion new farmers willing to farm those fields then we really wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

 

Yes I understand your point that corn is a temporary material to be used and algae/bio-mass/and cellulosic is the future. However, am i suppose to ignore the fact that it is in fact corn being used now? I can't get "off the corn argument" because thats the still the point at issue. Its the same food being burnt and causing numerous economic/agricultural problems.

I concede that technology can fix this. And you concede that corn isn't the way because it does little to alleviate our energy needs. So why not halt e85 production of corn until new technology provides us with a suitable alternative?

Just because there is the promise of a new form of E85 in the future doesn't mean we can all just sit here and ignore the corn argument when it is in fact corn still being used.

 

It sounds like you are making up your own argument parameters as you go along.

Where would you possibly get the idea that there are a finite numbers of farmers on a planet with an astounding population growth?

 

Because it would also halt (and generally reverse) the work that's been done to prepare the infrastructure needed to deliver that fuel to consumers.

Halt production today, and you'll see at least a 10 year ramp up again later when we're in a position to make a wholesale switch to another ethanol source. All the infrastructure being built today to support it (everything from backend processing and delivery to the basic pumps you interact with at the gas station) would likely be abandoned/dismantled, and you'd have a heck of a time convincing a "once bitten, twice shy" company to make any significant investment again in ethanol after having had the rug pulled out on them once already.

In other words: we have the momentum now, backed by financing we've been injecting for quite some time. You can disagree with that financing (even I don't like the form it took), but it's foolish to throw away that investment and the momentum it created just to start over again in 5-10 years, and having to fight both inertia and the now-increased fear that this is just a passing fancy (again).

I'll also point out that you're completely ignoring the strategic value of a domestic fuel production program, as mrfred mentioned earlier. Once the market starts tipping more towards electric for consumer vehicles (we're not even close yet, unfortunately), there's still a strong commercial need for fuel that we can bolster with domestic production rather than buying it elsewhere. That's a significant win, in strategic terms: we're no longer beholden to another country (yes, even Canada ) for our energy supply needs, if need be.

I've said it elsewhere, but I'll repeat it here: for that strategic win, we wouldn't even need to replace 50% of our domestic fuel needs with biofuels. The simple fact that we could ramp up production capacity is a good way to keep our trading partners from overestimating their value.

 

Anyone know how much corn we export? (i really dont know and am curious) I was of the understanding that we are exporting more of it every year. add that to the surplus that was already mentioned.

Everyone that i have discussed the E85 situation with brings up results and studies that were done anywhere from 3-10 years ago. After doing some research they realize its not as bad of a situation as was once thought. This just shows me that most people that are hesitant or agianst corn ethanol are usually just not properly informed. One friend even tried to tell me that GWB's plan for ethanol was supposed to come completely from corn.

Anyone know why we started using corn in the first place? Possible surplus? (once again i dont know the answer to this one and if anyone knows please share it)

 

I respectfully disagree with yours statements.

Here's a link from a study done where I work (www.anl.gov) http://www.chicagocleancities.org/PD...005Summary.pdf

And take a look at Brazil's ethanol-based fuel market... it is doing quite well. They, however, use sugar cane as an E85 precursor.

If the algae-based production methods that are currently in research come to market, we will be seeing a lot more cheap ethanol.

 

I will run E85 until the day they stop selling it. The performance gains are very respectable and the price is unbeatable for the performance you get.

I'd like to see us move towards cellulosic ethanol and away from corn-based ethanol. That's about the extent of how much thought I put into it.