typically i run 22 pounds of boost, 11.0 afr in 3rd and about 10* of timing(give or take)...


basically i cranked up the boost to 28, dropped the timing to 4/5* and adjusted the afr's back to 11*

the car went from spooling 28 pounds by 2900 rpms to about 3400. the timing played a huuuge part in that. with methanol being able to run 16* timing the rpms fly...


idk if im imaging it but the car feels as powerful as it was on meth with just a quick tune. i havent spent the time to fine tune it.

according to my friends gtech i went from a 11.9 1/4 on 93 to a 11.68 1/4 its pretty accurate too...

i dont understand whats going on... lol this is incredible, i thought timing plays a huge part in power, but it seems like it has only affected spool.

any comments or ideas would be great.

i know the egt's become a little hotter than normal with a tune like this...


any other ideas how MIKE123 is trapping 120 on 93.... the most i can muster up with the most aggresive super deadly tune is 114.8.

cheers!

 

Are you saying that you did this without the Meth on?

 

correct.... just knocked down the timing so i can run more boost... there was an increase of power...



i just found out he only wieghts 2900 pounds... i did the math comparing my car to his im 3300 and he's 2900.

if we both ran 11.4 @ 120

i would need 440whp and 445wtrq
he would need 387whp and 391 wtrq

the power is still impressive... but its been done by many many many people.

my car with a normal tune with less mods than him is right there as far as whp.


11.4 @ 120 3300 440/445 11.4 @ 2900 387/391


so basically.... big deal he's trapping 120.... i rather trap 114 cruising down the track with the a/c on lol

cheers!

 

So wait wait wait, you ran 28 pounds on 93 octane without meth? at 4* at peak torque?

and at 22 pounds you were runing 10*?

That is just ridiculous, how was knock?

 

Also the power increase was because of the increase in boost, your timing would have been thrown WAY WAY down by the Ecu assuming you were knocking like a ****? so actual timing was way lower, then what you set it to on your maps. ( Again assuming you are not runing meth, based on JohnBradley asking you if you did this without meth and you said correct, i mean WOW on 93 pump 28 pounds at 4* OUCHIE?

 

after resetting peak to 2* and redline to 14*, and slowly adding 1 degree here and there at a time while adjusting A:F, I found where my car quit making power with timing.

Was a tedious process - took me about 200 WOT logged 3rd gear pulls (and about three oil changes), but I would chart rpm vs time on X, Y - scatter on excel with a specific segment of pull. The changes were obvious

Log Works already has an option to overlay but not as precise as manually as I did

 

did you put the logs into data llog lab to see what the difference in numbers is?

 

with meth it does play a huge part it just depends on where you adjust the timing (rpm range)

 

I'm glad you tried this, I was going to do the same with my own but I'm afraid to with the stock head bolts, I keep hearing people say there will be failures over ~ 25psi

are you running stock head bolts? I know Mike already said he upgraded his.

 

i usually run meth on my car with 27/28 psi.. stock head bolts.... i dont believe theres a point to changing them when ya have stock cams.. if i were to open it up then i would upgrade... buts its a nice factory seal, probably better than putting in the arp.


there is 0, 1's knock. by backing up the timing i was able to avoid that. i have no realy proof other than the but dyno. and when shifting into second instead of just feeling the tires loose a little traction i can hear them spin and the car moves sideways a tinnny bit. on 93 the car never does that... but on meth ever hard 1 - 2 shift it will....

i should be going to the local track (moroso) next wednesday. i'll test the new 93 map and see if i can duplicate mikes1023 power.... i would need to trap 116.5 to run the same time as him gutted (400 pounds lost). im fairly confident the car is there.

as far as parts, he has o2 housing licp and cams. im lacking all 3 but i have everything else and evo 9 advantage.

 

I think mike said he's spiking to 30-32psi but his boost gauge was questioned by many people *shrug* hard to say.

 

So at what point does it seem like adding timing fails to make power? Very interesting results BTW.

 

I did something like this on my Eclipse a few years back.

I normally ran like 22 psi with 16* peak timing, then for a pull I went to 25 psi with about 2 degree less, then I went to 28 psi with 6 degrees less.

The 25 psi run seemed to definitely pick up a little more power (from the acceleration in the logs). The 28 psi seemed to be around where the 25 psi was going to be, but the plugs misfired around 5500RPM, so I stopped the pull.

In general though, I have seen countless logs where boost was more beneficial than timing, as long as your turbo was efficient at those boost levels. Out stock turbo probably won't benefit too much from increased boost, since it can't even hold more than around 22 psi to redline. With a larger turbo, for best power, I would definitely favor boost for timing in regards to making peak power.


Eric

 

heres a 3rd gear log.... theres still alot more timing that i can add up top... i'm satisfied with the low and mid range. just to keep it safe for normal pulls.

cheers!


rpm knock timing load afr
2968- -1- -05- -181.1- -11.6718-
3125- -1- -06- -204.3- -11.0838-
3250- -0- -06- -228.7- -11.0192-
3437- -0- -06- -268.5- -11.0691-
3625- -0- -07- -301.1- -11.1132-
3875- -0- -07- -299.3- -11.1898-
4093- -0- -06- -286.9- -11.1134-
4375- -0- -06- -277.4- -11.1426-
4562- -0- -06- -273.9- -11.1573-
4875- -0- -07- -267.8- -11.1279-
5093- -0- -07- -265.9- -11.1279-
5312- -0- -07- -262.1- -11.2308-
5531- -0- -07- -261.1- -11.2602-
5750- -0- -08- -263.7- -11.0691-
5968- -0- -09- -255.5- -11.1573-
6187- -0- -10- -252.1- -11.1573-
6375- -0- -10- -245.6- -11.1132-
6531- -0- -11- -243.3- -10.9809-
6750- -0- -11- -237.0- -10.9809-
6937- -0- -11- -232.0- -10.8339-

 

the timing definetly makes power.... when i first dropped the timing down to 4* when i first started with 22 pounds the spool was horrible but after 6000 it felt completely flat... just reving out.... the extra boost fix's that and give a little extra.

on the way home from work i'm going to play with it a little more and see what happens. i should be able to get another 2 or 3 deg up top and another 1 or 2 midrange. while still leaving room on the table..

my 4th gear afr is in the 10.7's

1st is in the 11.2's and 3's

i need to smooth out the fuel map a little more. i've spent 30 min tops working on this map.

cheers!