sometimes in life you dont need to TRY it to know for certain if its not the best idea. I certainly did not take internet classes to get a certificate or degree. instead I went to a university and got a degree, knowing the internet ones are not a great idea. Sure you will lean somewhat, but not even close to how much you can learn actually attending classes.
I say the same with internet flashes, Sure you gain a bit, but nearly as much as other means. that all the point I was making.
its a ratio thing. FLASHED GAIN / ($ + time) is a lot less than
(DYNO TUNE / $ + time)

 

yes, you make sense, but I live in romania, so to make a proper tune u need to call someone to come in your country or go there where rallys take place and this takes you about 1000 euros (1200 USD). Or mail your ECU to a tuner and this costs you about 800 euros. So, you were me, which way did you choose? For me mail tuning is kinda cheapest and safest solution. My only wories is to find a tuner that provides you full service (error free tuning and multiple tryies if something goes wrong)

 

This is a most ridiculous attempt at a poor analogy.

If you have zero experience in eflash products, you should not even be in this thread.

I might have you start in the newbie section to free the main forums from your lack of any useful information. With 23 posts, you have not convinced anyone that you have a credible opinion and furthermore you have admitted that you have no experience in the topic of the thread.

Please spare this thread and forum of your expert opinion and bow out.

 

you ever hear the phrases "speek softly but carry a big stick"
or "quality over quantity"

if you didn't like that analogy here is one for ya,
I never got my hair cut from SUPERCUTS $10/cut, I always use a professional salon at $18/cut because I know SUPERCUTS is not the best idea to look good.
A professional salon actually has to go through more "training" than a supercuts person does, the basically hand them out like internet degrees.
I dont need to experience supercuts, I just know.
supercuts haircut rewards / $money is a lot less then a proffesional salon / $money.

just like a mail in flash benefits dont outweight a real dyno tune.

 

You still have no factual basis not only for your claims, but also for your analogy. I will go ahead and assume that neither you nor anyone you know has ever worked as an employee of supercuts, and also has worked at a professional salon to back up your once again, ridiculous analogy.

Supercuts could have greater training than a "professional salon" for all anyone knows. Furthermore, who's to say that a Paul Mitchell personally trained cosmetologist has never worked for a supercuts location?

It is about the result of the flash and skill of the tuner, not the pricing that dictates quality. Neither of which you have experienced so I will politely ask you once again to take your fact-absent opinion to the newbie section.

 

actually its not ridiculous at all. I guess some people like yourself will always be clueless and burn money trying EVERYTHING out in life, the "live and learn" type mentality.
"there are some people who gargle from the fountain of knowledge, while others like myself DRINK from it"
on the other side,its nice that your trying to be polite. I give ya that.

 

mscorei, sounds like your stuck in between a rock and a hard place. that kinda sucks that there is nothing were you live.

 

Last time I checked, I tuned the record 10 second stock turbo Evo, but thanks for your expertise.

Keep on gargling and swallowing all that knowledge.

Eflashes are great products from the right tuner with proven track record.

 

While your analogies are kinda whack and out there, i do understand where you are coming from completly. You are trusting your e-tune to somebody that may or may not be qualified to tune your set-up....or tune at all! Fact is, it does not take much to set yourself up a vendor account with evom, start a online e-tuning service and start telling people you are a tuner. I question a lot of the things i see from a lot of the vendors on this site. I'm a real dyno tuner, with many years of experiece tuning many many cars. Not just EVOs. I see the crazy stuff some of these vendors say and their horrible tunes. Some e-tuners on this site don't even understand that it takes a lot more than one free adjustment to get things right. I think thats ubsurd to think that your tune will only need one "free" adjustment to get things right.

Anyway, there are a lot of people on these boards that claim to know everything and have everything figured out. Fact is, they don't so be careful. And the ones that do know a little, won't usually give you a strait answer for sake of hurting their profit margins, so...again....be careful.

I'm sick of seeing the vendors bully everybody around because they are e-tuners or beacuse they feel as though they know more than everybody else. People, don't buy into what the general consencus is.... it's like the blind leading the blind sometimes. I don't trust anybody on these boards.....because i know better and i'm here to tell you how it is. This sort of BS would never be tolerated on the boards i'm from.

I'm here for you guys and i'm not selling a single thing, nor will i start selling anything to you to win your "trust".

If you guys have a question, i will give you a strait answer and i'm here for the better of the board, not to make money.....which makes me sick to think that the majority of the reason why people that are here to help are really here for. I DON'T WANT YOUR MONEY!!! I want to lead people in the right direction...thats it. To teach what i have learned from the best of the best in the tuning world. My peers laugh when we talk about this forum.....it's a joke to the real tuners.

With that said, there are a few people on this board that are here to help you out. Can you guess if they are vendors or not?


CJ

 

I wouldnt get upset..

we all know how the forum goes....

--------

TTP and many other companies are doing great things with Eflashes... ive dynoed a few from different places and have been very impressed....

I think the dollar ratio is very reasonable... we have done a few mailed maps, but most of our work is done on the dyno, because most of our clients WANT to come to our shop in general..

-----------------------

cb

 

This is not Directed to anyone inparticular.

CJ,

I definitely agree with you on some of your points. Im not going to say anything bad about anyone, its not my spot, but I know what I know from what I have seen. I have been tuning for 7+ years on about anything you can imagine and I have my mechanical engineering degree with a focus on the thermodynamic processes of Internal combustion engines. I have seen some good e-flashes and some bad. I have seen some really good dyno tunes, and some really really bad ones from some of the "best" vendors.

A safe and conservative tune can be done with an e-flash with about 1 correction, but by no means can any vendor, no matter their experience, optimize a customer car via an e-flash.

There is also the assumption that the car is in good operating order when these e-flashes are done, and a lot of the time they are not. I had a car come in once with a really good e-flash tune on it that was missing and running like crap both before and after due to a boost leak. This is just one example of something that a e-flash vendor will have a hard time discovering without the hands on with the actual car.

Personally, I will never offer an e-flash service. Its definitely tempting due to the mad amounts of money some people are bringing in from them, and I applaud them for that and doing a good job at it as well. But... I hold every tune that I do to the highest standards and expect nothing but the best, and I know that I personally can not tune to the best of my ability via e-flashing.

I feel that there are quite a few tuners on here and all around should have a bit more theoretical knowledge of why things happen within the combustion process. I have talked to a few guys that have no clue about some really general concepts when it comes to the combustion process, and it is these guys who are making the most money from tuning these cars.

I think it would be hilarious for a group of "tuners" to sit down with group of real tuners and get drilled with questions! I feel a challenge comming on, mabey we should video tape it for all of EvoM to see, lol. Im willing to bet that any real tuner could just about embarrass half of the "tuners" on here with questions in regards to tuning. There are just some things that I believe you should understand before you start plugging away on a laptop to map in a car, and it would surprise a few people who dont know some very basic things.


Chad.... Have you ever been to Silverstone in England to race. I will be there with an open wheel car I mapped racing in the middle of July and am very excited. PM me when you get a chance.

 

I agree with you as well. there is a list of requirments I have before I tune your engine. these all give me a good idea of the engines bill of health before I even strap the car down on the dyno. you just can't do this from the internet. this is just the beginning. I make sure the customer has the correct plugs and a fresh set at that. I personally gap my customers plugs and will find the optimum gap for their engine/setup. things like fixing boost controller issues, fuel pressure adjustments.....ect need to be done. not everything carries over from one car to the next.... but my hands need to be on the car for me to tune it.

it has been tempting for me as well, in regards to selling etunes. the money these people are making is crazy. but I know better and refuse to do such a thing.

this might be a litle more accepted in the evo world for a couple reasons. the first and most important is the evo's very sensitive knock sensor and its very effective protocols. a etuner can throw whatever he wantsfor ignition timing,within reason and the evo will tell the tuner what it wants via the knock sensor. tuning off the knock sensor is not only dangerous, but a really bad habbit to have when trying to tune other cars with less effective knock sensors or with engines not using a knock sensor.

trust me, the EVO is by far the easiest car to tune IMO. comparing it to my specialty, the Honda K series, which is by far one of the intense engines to tune. most of you etuners would shudder at the thought of how to tune a k series engine from scratch using a Hondata kpro.

I would love to have a face to face meeting with these etuners. to tape and have all evom see, it would be sad and funny at the same time. count me in!

some etuners have question my qualifications.... all I can say to them........ pay attention!


CJ

 

are you that dense?!! Your still missing the WHOLE POINT. maybe you do have credentials as a "good tunner". I never said you didn't, but the point I was making is you get a better deal with a real dyno tune, not an email flash. Having the SAME person do a email flash then doing a real dyno, run flash, The email flash would not be as good even though it came from the same person.

 

Easy there Playboy! I think he gets the point, but feels that you are insulting him. Which from your last comment ^^^^ , it is clear that you are. Everyone would get a lot more out of this forum if everyone would just chill.

 

For someone who daily drives their car and has a "couple" mods. Eflash or mail in is the way to go. It's safe and will compliment the mods you have nicely so you'll actually FEEL gains on the street.
If you're at the track every weekend and want to squeeze every last bit of power you can, go ahead and strap it to the dyno after every time you turn a wrench. Some people don't want to spend $300 everytime they add a mod to custom tune.
The majority of us just want a fast, fun car that's reliable.
Al offers one free remap which is good enough. He sends you base maps that are VERY conservative. You log. He sends back new revised maps that are more "custom" but still safe. Worked for me!
Eflash FTW.