2006 Evolution 9
780cc Precision Injectors (view scaling, worked perfect with stock turbo)
Full Race Manifold/ 3" downpipe
Garrett GT3037 (gt3076r)
Walbro Pump
3" full exhaust
4" intake arm with open filter



Logs: (right click save as, opens with excel)
http://www.kohlerperformance.com/hosted/log.csv
http://www.kohlerperformance.com/hosted/log2.csv

Symptoms:
At full boost the car runs 10.0a/f and will not lean out no matter what. Also the timing goes around -8 degrees when full boost comes on.



Thoughts:
Im thinking something with the fuel is out of range making the car freak out. I have tried editing timing, it still goes below 0.

 

What wideband are you using? Is it a known good sensor? Is this with E85 or normal gas.

Your timing is going negative because you have negative timing in your 260 and above load columns. Why? You will be over 260 with that turbo.

What open filter are you running.

I would also highly recommend turning your boost limit back on and lowering the limit a little. Espically while playing with a larger turbo and what I am seeing so far. It might just save your ***.

 

Some feedback and some questions ...

You definitely need to log 2-byte load. I have a feeling that the load calc in your logs isn't correct.

You've modified the boost desired table. Are you using the stock BCS?

You should probably have a way to log boost.

Why are you not logging your AFR?

Are you running any gauges in EvoScan while logging?

These are 2nd gear runs? Try logging 3rd for more accurate results.

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Okay, I think the problem is that you aren't actually hitting the load cells that your load calc says. How much boost are you running with this setup? With that size turbo, I would assume you would be WAY over the 300% mark. Since you aren't scaled for that you are seeing those odd numbers. I'll bet if you change the values in the 300 column you'll see results.

Good luck, and I hope to see more logs as we figure this thing out.

 

You might also want to check your fuel map as you have a random 15.9/15.7 at rpm 2500/3000 , Load column 120.

 

I would follow the suggestion of logging 2-byte load to see where you are at on the map. Using a quick estimate, I think you're getting well beyond 300 load.

But, I think your bigger problem is the negative timing in your ignition maps. You're AFRs are probably going staight to 10:1 because that might be the richest your wideband reads. Also, if you are overshooting your maps, I remember people seeing more timing getting pulled and more fuel added. I'm sure the huge amount of negative timing would alter the AFR, too.

Why do you have such large negative numbers in your map? I would put your timing map back to stock for starters, and if you're worried, maybe subtract a couple of degrees before you go log and watch for knock. It would be wise to start with the boost turned down.


Eric

 

Eric, that is actually the stock evo 9 ign map #2.

But yes I agree I have no idea why he is running that with that turbo. If he is indeed running that rich and with that much negative timing, it is no wonder the car is breaking up.

 

Wow, I did not know that. Guess somebody needs to buy me a IX so I can know these things ahead of time.

Well, then, he must be hitting a much higher load than what is being calculated. Whether it be because of the MAF scaling being off or some other reason (what boost?), he is obviously hitting the last column and beyond in his maps.

When I quickly looked at his logs, he is getting to the max Hz limit of logging (1603) at about 4000 RPM. Using a quick estimate of my old calculated load equation using the Hz value, I got over 300 load.

So, if that is true, then things sound about right compared to what his maps say. And if he is overrunning the maps, I remember there being additional safeties of reducing timing (and maybe adding fuel). I remember a thread about it.

I think we need to wait for more data. Whatever it turns out to be, I think he can up the timing a bit from -8, etc, that he is seeing now. How have other people tuned there IXs? Do they really need that little amount of timing...I can't imagine that, especially on a 3076.


Eric

 

best left to the two very worthy posters

 

Yes he is for sure, his calc load is totally off because he is running larger injectors and scaled for them. I know you know this Eric, I am repeating this and the following for the original poster.

It doesn't surpise me that he is at least close if not over 300 with a GT3076. The one unknown currently is his boost level.

The 9's use less timing than the 8's stock for sure. Most likely because of what they think are higher cyl pressures than 8's because of mivec. With stock boost and no mods they fall into the 220-240 load column at peak boost. Mitsu also put a much bigger safety net in case of higher loads in the stock maps then they did on the 9's. This is also why we see such a huge torque gain from untuned to tuned on Evo 9's.

This is the part of tuning a Evo, he has a much larger turbo that puts him in higher loads because of much more airflow. It does not surprise me one bit that he is complaining of it breaking up with -8 timing and rich AFR. It's actually good that he kept those values in there so it did break up and he came here for help. Better that then more timing and less fuel and wondering why his motor went pop.

In my honest opinion I think he needs to step back from tuning it and really figure some more stuff out. It sounds like he isn't even sure what type of load columns he is in or could be in with such a turbo. Also, please also put your boost limit back on, it will save your ***!

The other unknown is the current gas he is using, is it E85 or regular gas?

 

That is actually incorrect. Stock for stock, the 8's run more timing than the 9's

 

Im running a 16psi spring in my tial 44mm, and using a hallman controller at the lowest setting.

Also, I am using a AEM wideband with 93 octane pump.

So the 1st thing I need to do is 2 byte-load..

Does anyone have a basemap i could use? Ill paypal you the money.

 

And what boost is that giving you?

What does it read at idle? Is it a new sensor? Did you ever run it in the car without the unit powered?

It would be helpful for you to know where you are at but isn't totally needed.

 

Yes ...yes...but what is your actual boost in PSI ? Peak and taper to at what rpm? Do you have a boost gauge? What is it saying.? Is the boost being logged in any way ? That's what razorlab and L8r99 need to help you out here.

And yes, log 2 byte load.

Milburn

 

It reads in close loop at idle, 14.7-15.0 a/f, boost is at 21-22psi and holding on the gauge. (greddy electronic gauge)

 

What open filter?