Total noob to tuning....few questions
Total noob to tuning....few questions
Posted this in general tuning, but was told I'd get more info here....go easy on me
I've decided that I'm going to try and learn to tune. Figure that it's a good skill to have, and will hopefully save me some $$$ in the process (unless I blow up my engine). I've read the "How to tune an Evo" thread, and it's great. But it still leaves me with things I just don't get yet.
So, I've got a few questions. First things, I've got EcuFlash, EvoScan, and the Tactrix cable. I should be getting a wideband in the next few days or so. I've done some logging, just to test out the software. I've also gotten my stock ROM from EcuFlash. So my first question is, and a kind of embarrassing one, when you get the logs that save from EvoScan, what do you do with them exactly? I've looked at the graphs and whatnot that you can get. Do you look for things in there, and then change the values in the stock ROM in EcuFlash? I'm totally lost on this, and pretty embarrassed to ask. But if I don't ask, I'll never know.
Next question. When I do figure out what to do with the logs, how do you know what numbers to change? I mean, I know you can't make the A/F ratio the same number all across the board. But do you look at the logs, then look at the RPMS and adjust accordingly? This is my big question. How you know what numbers to change, and what to change them to. Not just A/F, but all the injector stuff, timing, etc.
If you read this, and think "Man, what an idiot" I'll understand haha. But if you can help me at all, I'd really appreciate it. I've rebuilt engines before, and I learned how to do that on my own, so I figure I could learn to tune on my own.
I've decided that I'm going to try and learn to tune. Figure that it's a good skill to have, and will hopefully save me some $$$ in the process (unless I blow up my engine). I've read the "How to tune an Evo" thread, and it's great. But it still leaves me with things I just don't get yet.
So, I've got a few questions. First things, I've got EcuFlash, EvoScan, and the Tactrix cable. I should be getting a wideband in the next few days or so. I've done some logging, just to test out the software. I've also gotten my stock ROM from EcuFlash. So my first question is, and a kind of embarrassing one, when you get the logs that save from EvoScan, what do you do with them exactly? I've looked at the graphs and whatnot that you can get. Do you look for things in there, and then change the values in the stock ROM in EcuFlash? I'm totally lost on this, and pretty embarrassed to ask. But if I don't ask, I'll never know.
Next question. When I do figure out what to do with the logs, how do you know what numbers to change? I mean, I know you can't make the A/F ratio the same number all across the board. But do you look at the logs, then look at the RPMS and adjust accordingly? This is my big question. How you know what numbers to change, and what to change them to. Not just A/F, but all the injector stuff, timing, etc.
If you read this, and think "Man, what an idiot" I'll understand haha. But if you can help me at all, I'd really appreciate it. I've rebuilt engines before, and I learned how to do that on my own, so I figure I could learn to tune on my own.
. Saves yourself a headache and no need to risk blowing up your car.
I suggest looking at the stock rom. "what" to change and "where" is determined by knowing the load value the ecu is using at that given moment. If you look at the fuel and timing tables in ecu flash. You will see it uses two axis, governed by load and rpm. AT X rpm and X load I am in THIS cell. That - is how you determine the WHAT and WHERE. The "how" is trickier. Its a simple button push of course. But also needs some more input. Mainly from viewing the logs. Seeing what your ACTUAL A/F ratio is. And monitoring knock. This is where you need to use that mass of cells located in your skull to do the rest.
Make small changes and your first course of action should be observing knock. When does it happen? Where? Once you get the WB in I would familiarize yourself by setting a target A/F ratio. Pick something safe. Follow the cells your car sees thru a WOT pull and try to get it to hold a given A/F ratio that you have decided. A stock car is rich. Try leaning it up a tad. Keep it consistent. And do not just tune the cells your car is in during the pulls. Try to keep maps smooth. Adjacent cells should be adjusted accordingly unless it is producing undesired results. Not all transitions are made at WOT at X boost at X humidity at X temp etc etc etc. So keeping things smooth and tidy will generally produce better driveability overall.
If you read the whole tuning thread. Read some of the more specific ones. There are many adjustments you can add to ecuflash and logging programs to give them more precision. (2 byte load / rpm / airflow) etc. As well as additional features you can add to the rom itself. Many of these are specific to your rom. So try to follow the ones specific to your rom ID.
Its alot to take on in the very beginning but it is MUCH easier than it seems. One of the FIRST mods you should do to ecuflash is the 2 byte load. It will tell you EXACTLY what load cell the ecu is using to dole out fuel and timing. For good results, this is key. Otherwise its like tuning with beer goggles on in a bar full of fatties.
Make small changes and your first course of action should be observing knock. When does it happen? Where? Once you get the WB in I would familiarize yourself by setting a target A/F ratio. Pick something safe. Follow the cells your car sees thru a WOT pull and try to get it to hold a given A/F ratio that you have decided. A stock car is rich. Try leaning it up a tad. Keep it consistent. And do not just tune the cells your car is in during the pulls. Try to keep maps smooth. Adjacent cells should be adjusted accordingly unless it is producing undesired results. Not all transitions are made at WOT at X boost at X humidity at X temp etc etc etc. So keeping things smooth and tidy will generally produce better driveability overall.
If you read the whole tuning thread. Read some of the more specific ones. There are many adjustments you can add to ecuflash and logging programs to give them more precision. (2 byte load / rpm / airflow) etc. As well as additional features you can add to the rom itself. Many of these are specific to your rom. So try to follow the ones specific to your rom ID.
Its alot to take on in the very beginning but it is MUCH easier than it seems. One of the FIRST mods you should do to ecuflash is the 2 byte load. It will tell you EXACTLY what load cell the ecu is using to dole out fuel and timing. For good results, this is key. Otherwise its like tuning with beer goggles on in a bar full of fatties.
Last edited by Asmodeus6; Apr 16, 2008 at 11:56 PM.
I suggest looking at the stock rom. "what" to change and "where" is determined by knowing the load value the ecu is using at that given moment. If you look at the fuel and timing tables in ecu flash. You will see it uses two axis, governed by load and rpm. AT X rpm and X load I am in THIS cell. That - is how you determine the WHAT and WHERE. The "how" is trickier. Its a simple button push of course. But also needs some more input. Mainly from viewing the logs. Seeing what your ACTUAL A/F ratio is. And monitoring knock. This is where you need to use that mass of cells located in your skull to do the rest.
Make small changes and your first course of action should be observing knock. When does it happen? Where? Once you get the WB in I would familiarize yourself by setting a target A/F ratio. Pick something safe. Follow the cells your car sees thru a WOT pull and try to get it to hold a given A/F ratio that you have decided. A stock car is rich. Try leaning it up a tad. Keep it consistent. And do not just tune the cells your car is in during the pulls. Try to keep maps smooth. Adjacent cells should be adjusted accordingly unless it is producing undesired results. Not all transitions are made at WOT at X boost at X humidity at X temp etc etc etc. So keeping things smooth and tidy will generally produce better driveability overall.
If you read the whole tuning thread. Read some of the more specific ones. There are many adjustments you can add to ecuflash and logging programs to give them more precision. (2 byte load / rpm / airflow) etc. As well as additional features you can add to the rom itself. Many of these are specific to your rom. So try to follow the ones specific to your rom ID.
Its alot to take on in the very beginning but it is MUCH easier than it seems. One of the FIRST mods you should do to ecuflash is the 2 byte load. It will tell you EXACTLY what load cell the ecu is using to dole out fuel and timing. For good results, this is key. Otherwise its like tuning with beer goggles on in a bar full of fatties.
Make small changes and your first course of action should be observing knock. When does it happen? Where? Once you get the WB in I would familiarize yourself by setting a target A/F ratio. Pick something safe. Follow the cells your car sees thru a WOT pull and try to get it to hold a given A/F ratio that you have decided. A stock car is rich. Try leaning it up a tad. Keep it consistent. And do not just tune the cells your car is in during the pulls. Try to keep maps smooth. Adjacent cells should be adjusted accordingly unless it is producing undesired results. Not all transitions are made at WOT at X boost at X humidity at X temp etc etc etc. So keeping things smooth and tidy will generally produce better driveability overall.
If you read the whole tuning thread. Read some of the more specific ones. There are many adjustments you can add to ecuflash and logging programs to give them more precision. (2 byte load / rpm / airflow) etc. As well as additional features you can add to the rom itself. Many of these are specific to your rom. So try to follow the ones specific to your rom ID.
Its alot to take on in the very beginning but it is MUCH easier than it seems. One of the FIRST mods you should do to ecuflash is the 2 byte load. It will tell you EXACTLY what load cell the ecu is using to dole out fuel and timing. For good results, this is key. Otherwise its like tuning with beer goggles on in a bar full of fatties.
i would suggest you do the 2byte load mod so that it will be easier for you to tune. it will help you locate the proper cel that is being used... oh wait, since you have evoscan i believe they have a maptracer that will help you see which cells were accessed during the run.
when tuning just make sure you monitor your knock sum and afr. and remember to do small changes on the table.
before you do table changes make sure you have a way to control set your boost since you have to do this first but make sure you clean out your knock before increasing your boost just to be on the safe side. depending on your mods you might need to increase your boost limit(you will know you have to adjust it if you feel like hitting a wall as you accelerate) as you increase your boost.
have fun tuning and make sure you do your runs on a safe road.
when tuning just make sure you monitor your knock sum and afr. and remember to do small changes on the table.
before you do table changes make sure you have a way to control set your boost since you have to do this first but make sure you clean out your knock before increasing your boost just to be on the safe side. depending on your mods you might need to increase your boost limit(you will know you have to adjust it if you feel like hitting a wall as you accelerate) as you increase your boost.
have fun tuning and make sure you do your runs on a safe road.
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First of all, IMO if your asking questions like these, plan on devoting a substantial amount of your time to reading, not just EvoM threads, but actual books on how to tune engines BEFORE you start actually tuning engines. I highly recommend Jeff Hartman's 'How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems' book - It's got a great '101' chapter that is almost as good as EFI University's EFI101 class. EFI University's course is pretty good as well but I don't recommend this class for a complete novice.
If your looking for a low cost tune, self tuning is probably not the way to go. If you want to learn how to tune engines as a hobby or for professional purposes, prepare to spend substantial resources in the process (remember Time=$). I suggest seeking out a good flash tuner that will explain what they are doing as they are doing it. This would be a good fast track to tuning the Evo
I review them both graphically and numerically, you can also run the logs through a sofware dyno to get power comparisons if an actual dyno is not available.
Yes, you review logs and change values if you'd like different results. For the most part it's just a systematic process that has been explained in many threads.
1. Log car
2. Identify problem areas. (lean areas, rich areas, knock, etc)
3. Find specific load cells that are causing identified problem. (using 2byteload, rpm, timing values, from log to find location on actual mappings)
4. Adjust values to correct problem (experience helps lots here)
5. Log car - Problem fixed Y/N? - If Y then your done, if N then go back to step 2.
If your looking for a low cost tune, self tuning is probably not the way to go. If you want to learn how to tune engines as a hobby or for professional purposes, prepare to spend substantial resources in the process (remember Time=$). I suggest seeking out a good flash tuner that will explain what they are doing as they are doing it. This would be a good fast track to tuning the Evo
When I do figure out what to do with the logs, how do you know what numbers to change? I mean, I know you can't make the A/F ratio the same number all across the board. But do you look at the logs, then look at the RPMS and adjust accordingly? This is my big question. How you know what numbers to change, and what to change them to. Not just A/F, but all the injector stuff, timing, etc.
1. Log car
2. Identify problem areas. (lean areas, rich areas, knock, etc)
3. Find specific load cells that are causing identified problem. (using 2byteload, rpm, timing values, from log to find location on actual mappings)
4. Adjust values to correct problem (experience helps lots here)
5. Log car - Problem fixed Y/N? - If Y then your done, if N then go back to step 2.
Last edited by Mr. Evo IX; Apr 30, 2008 at 08:30 AM.