mfr122887

iTrader: (14)

Other can chime in on what parameters we actually need, but a few are: JDM MAP boost, wideband AFR, knock sum, TPS, RPM, 2-Byte load, ADC inputs. All of these would have to be met for simplicity and then a user can not use one of them by inputting a value that is always true.

As far as what to do when the failsafe kicks in, I just had an idea. What if you made it switch to one set of the low octane fuel and timing maps (alt or normal) and have it run them as the high octane maps when the failsafe kicked it? This would work for fuel and timing but I don't know what you could do for boost. Maybe put an option for the users using ecu boost to drop wgdc to 0 when the failsafe is engaged.

And what did you mean by your last statement?

What do you think of the above ideas?

I am just jotting down ideas, let me know if they make sense. Thanks

Jack_of_Trades

iTrader: (17)

I am all for a specific patch that incorporates more system failsafes

I would add my 2 cents but I'm swamped with a HUGE backlog of harness' and I still need to get my alky kit fully installed. Once I'm back on track I'll try to add my opinions. I like where this is going though

Asmodeus6

iTrader: (7)

I like this as well. It eliminates the need to buy a meth fail safe, or complicate matters at all. Its what I wished alt map would have done from go. Be dependent on knock as a trigger as an 'option'.

For Ex:
Tune A: meth / high boost

high knock for X duration = meth not spraying, SHTF OH F! etc

Tune B: 0% WGDC / low timing / richer fuel curve etc

This assumes you are using the ecu to control boost. I would be extremely satisfied if the second knock level would alt map.

This completely eliminates the need for a second solenoid... buying a meth failsafe... worrying about a hairy tune, or random failure. Teph if you can make the second knock tier alt map I'd say the rest could be handled at the user level with the alt map itself.

Just my opinion. I don't know what all that would quantify as far as work... or if it is possible. Maybe toss it in as another "switching" option 1/2/3 etc. It switched THIS way if you have it set THIS way. Kind of thing? That way only one method could be implemented at a time... so as not to cause things to fight. Possible?

mfr122887

iTrader: (14)

I am trying to think of a proper way of implementing this failsafe for people that run agressive maps for both regular and alt maps. I don't know if this would be to hard to program or even be effective but what if it went like this. If you are on the regular map and the failsafe is triggered it will switch to alt maps. If it contunues to trigger the failsafe for any reason, boost, afr, load, knock, etc then the WGDC is dropped to 0%, timing is pulled x degress and x fuel is added.

I think this would work for all users, if the failsafe is still engaged the maps would keep switching to a safer one. Tephra - can an offset be added so that it will subtract timing from the table if a condition is met? What does everyone else think of this?

I also think that the map should not switch back to the more agressive one until load and tps come down below a certain threshold. And maybe we can tie in the knock light into this, slow CEL as usual in your mod, fast CEL for when the failsafe is engaged and the maps drop to the alt, and then constant CEL for when the full failsafe is engaged and the timing and fuel are altered. This should be enough for anyone to save their motor, if they keep pushing it when they see the CEL then nothing is going to help them. Then when the low load threshold is met the CEL would turn off, differentiating it from a real code being thrown.

If some of the terms used are correct, let me know and I will try to explain myself better.

Can the sprayer output be used for other purposes? Such as triggering a relay? Just trying to get as much info as I can.

dudical26

iTrader: (17)

I think that the failsafe should not switch the alt maps. What if you want to use alt map for pump/meth. Then if your driving around on pump and you have a problem. You need something below the base map even.

I like the idea of having the failsafe switch to the low octane ignition and fuel map. That way if you are on meth, it will switch to the meth low octane , and if you are on pump it will switch to the pump map low octane. Plus this way you don't need a whole additional set of maps.

For boost I think it should drop the duty cycle by a user definable amount. For example if there is a failsafe condition, then it will drop the WGDC by say 40%

As far as triggers, I like what everyone suggested (RPM, AFR, Knock, TPS, Etc...) For each paramater you should be able to set a value, a condition (< or >) and to turn it on or off (can be accomplished by setting the value to a condition that will always be satisfied)

The CEL should be constant on if you are in failsafe mode, and then the ECU should only switch out of failsafe mode after load < 100 for > 10 seconds.

This will create a failsafe where if there is a problem it will reduce engine power significantly to protect the motor but still allow you to boost and have some power. When the failsafe kicks in you will really feel it, and if you continue to floor it, that would be stupid but, you will probably be safe.

mfr122887

iTrader: (14)

I think this is more of a non-issue if a user always uses the normal maps for their most agressive tune. Then anytime it would drop to alt maps it would be more conservative. Example - user has meth/pump map on regular and just pump on alt maps. If a failsafe occured on the meth map it would drop to the pump tune which should be safe considering they could be running only pump at that point. The part that this doesn't satisfy is what happens when the failsafe is engaged on the alt maps, what happens then? That's why I asked Tephra if additional timing be pulled and fuel be added outside of the table.

This could definitely be an option. Let see what others think about this.

I agree on all this.

dudical26

iTrader: (17)

Again I really don't think this is the way to go. It limits the use of alt maps and turns the alt map into a failsafe map. Alt maps were really intended to allow race gas, meth, or e85 maps. With the base map being pump gas.

The failsafe should be created to work for both alt map mode (race gas, etc...) and base map mode (pump gas).

mfr122887

iTrader: (14)

Whether the race, meth, or e85 map is in the alt or regular maps doesn't really matter does it? If it doesn't then the more agressive tune can always be used in one (alt or regular) and the safer map (pump) will be the other. Everyone just has to decide on which they want to use, to standardize it.

On the other hand, having the failsafe use the correspnding low octane maps in either alt or regular would work pretty well. Then you could pretty much have two seperate tunes with two seperate failsafes. A WGDC drop would also have to be added in this case. Are their any downfalls to doing it like this?

Maybe the option to switch to low-octane or to the alt maps could be included to satisfy everyone?

dudical26

iTrader: (17)

Why would anyone want that option. Not trying to be rude here but how is switching maps better than switching to low octane maps?

If you switch maps you wont be able to have a failsafe for your pump map. That is what I was trying to say before. The whole point of alt maps is the ability to switch on the fly between pump and race maps. If the alt map becomes a saftey map then you wont have the ability to switch on the fly between race and pump and you will render alt maps useless.

mfr122887

iTrader: (14)

You are not understading what I am saying. Let's say you have one map as your pump gas map and the other as your race or meth map. If you are running your meth map and something happens to trigger the failsafe, what is wrong with running the pump map in this case? As the car would be running on exactly what it has been tuned for - pump gas. Obviously this would be set to only work in this direction and wouldnt allow the pump gas map to change to the meth map. Unless I am missing something, I don't see how this is taking away from the dual maps we currently have?

This doesn't even matter, I was just trying to explain my point. Either way I think that the low octane maps are the way to go with a WGDC drop built in.

mfr122887

iTrader: (14)

Double Post

dudical26

iTrader: (17)

problem with switching from the alt map to the base map incase of a failure is what if you are running e85 on the altmap. People using different injector scailing for e85 vs pump. If you are on e85 and have a problem that causes lots of knock lets say, and then the ECU switches to the pump map as a failsafe that would also switch the injector scailing to the pump values. This is not what you want.

mfr122887

iTrader: (14)

Very true. I think the best way to go about it then would be switching the low octane maps when the failsafe is engaged.

Tephra - how hard would this be to implement? Do you see any negatives to this? Would you be able to add in a WGDC Drop (subtract this amount from the current table) when the failsafe is on?

Are we missing anything?

Jack_of_Trades

iTrader: (17)

The simplest failsafe that works regardless of your choice of alternative fuels (and whether you are running alt maps or standard maps) would be to instantly lower the boost level...nothing else really can be done without adding a TON of crap to the ROM, IMO.

Just find a universal output which can be used to activate a MAC valve for MBC users while also dropping WGDC internally. Sounds easy but I'm sure you can find an outout to steal. My 2 cents....keep the change,lol.

mfr122887

iTrader: (14)

Would you still incorporate the many triggers we discussed before so just base it off knock sum? Would IC Sprayer work for the output?