Knock Control Problems
Mar 7, 2009, 11:57 AM
#16
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Seems better below 4500 RPM. If you are still confident it isn't knocking (I would hear this in the cabin even without det cans if this was real knock and you didn't have a very loud exhaust), then you need to increase further at 4500-6000. Whilst you can't see every spike that is triggering the knock sums, there will be some doing it that aren't logged. You do have a slight issue at high RPM where if you increase it much more, then the sensor isn't miles away from saturating (if knock_base hits 255 you can't exceed it!)
Mar 7, 2009, 12:06 PM
#17
It is much noisier than other logs I've seen, the big spikes (and we're only seeing some of them) will look like knock to the ECU as they are, well, very spikey indeed. It could be tricky to get it running really well yet still have any decent knock sensitivity left.
Mar 7, 2009, 12:13 PM
#19
It would prove that there is one for every knock sum increase, but we know that because we've already tested. The patch isn't a quick thing to apply which is why I just suggested the MUT log of only a few items.
But as Mellon is hinting, the knocks across the whole range are rather different to the usual noises with forged pistons, balance shaft removal, cams, stiff engine mounts etc.
You can make the knock sums go away eventually, but you'll have little useful knock control left. A standalone would be just the same, the sensor is getting hammered with noise.
But as Mellon is hinting, the knocks across the whole range are rather different to the usual noises with forged pistons, balance shaft removal, cams, stiff engine mounts etc.
You can make the knock sums go away eventually, but you'll have little useful knock control left. A standalone would be just the same, the sensor is getting hammered with noise.
Mar 7, 2009, 04:58 PM
#20
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Well after spending a couple hours of nothing but logging and upping the knock multiplier values I have pretty much got rid of most of the knock. Im still getting 1 to 3 counts around 5000 rpm. My values are already really really high and Im going to have to raise them around that 5000 area too. They are as followed.
24 24 24 33 33 40 40 55 55 55 44 44 44 44
I guess Ill have to keep rasing the 55's. Im not even really gonna have any knock control left am I? I know these are the minimum values I can get by with because I raised them in values of 2 very slowly.
Thanks
24 24 24 33 33 40 40 55 55 55 44 44 44 44
I guess Ill have to keep rasing the 55's. Im not even really gonna have any knock control left am I? I know these are the minimum values I can get by with because I raised them in values of 2 very slowly.
Thanks
Mar 8, 2009, 01:48 AM
#22
No, not much left now.
The thing is, some people can have the whole package of mods and hardly reduce their detection accuracy, because they are only needing very small adjustment in certain areas. Your engine is totally different.
A teardown could be a waste of time if you find nothing, but previously people have found ring lands, valve train issues to explain this sort of thing (not just on 4G63). I can't see anything but a teardown telling you the "why". I would probably start by looking at the valvetrain, followed by taking the head off and then looking at the short motor, but I'm not a mechanic.
The thing is, some people can have the whole package of mods and hardly reduce their detection accuracy, because they are only needing very small adjustment in certain areas. Your engine is totally different.
A teardown could be a waste of time if you find nothing, but previously people have found ring lands, valve train issues to explain this sort of thing (not just on 4G63). I can't see anything but a teardown telling you the "why". I would probably start by looking at the valvetrain, followed by taking the head off and then looking at the short motor, but I'm not a mechanic.
Mar 8, 2009, 03:05 AM
#23
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my false knock started when I put the header kit on...there's a distinct and raspy/buzzing noise that crops up at a specific rpm range and the knock sensor goes wild.
With that in mind, I did mention to Chris on the phone that he may want to drop the exhaust system just to see if that made any difference at all since it wouldn't be too much trouble. He does have an 02 housing he's suspicious of but it would be so much work to swap that out.
the odd thing is that the knock SUM on his car isn't consistent in the value nor the rpm range...that has to mean something, but I can't for the life of me put my finger on what would cause that. That's why I pushed him towards replacing the knock sensor, but it didn't make any difference.
It would be interesting to listen with some det cans to find out if there's a distinct audible noise that coincides with the knock events.
I'm fully committed to helping Chris figure out this issue but not being local to him really limits what I can do
With that in mind, I did mention to Chris on the phone that he may want to drop the exhaust system just to see if that made any difference at all since it wouldn't be too much trouble. He does have an 02 housing he's suspicious of but it would be so much work to swap that out.
the odd thing is that the knock SUM on his car isn't consistent in the value nor the rpm range...that has to mean something, but I can't for the life of me put my finger on what would cause that. That's why I pushed him towards replacing the knock sensor, but it didn't make any difference.
It would be interesting to listen with some det cans to find out if there's a distinct audible noise that coincides with the knock events.
I'm fully committed to helping Chris figure out this issue but not being local to him really limits what I can do
Apr 22, 2009, 02:10 PM
#24
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No, not much left now.
The thing is, some people can have the whole package of mods and hardly reduce their detection accuracy, because they are only needing very small adjustment in certain areas. Your engine is totally different.
A teardown could be a waste of time if you find nothing, but previously people have found ring lands, valve train issues to explain this sort of thing (not just on 4G63). I can't see anything but a teardown telling you the "why". I would probably start by looking at the valvetrain, followed by taking the head off and then looking at the short motor, but I'm not a mechanic.
The thing is, some people can have the whole package of mods and hardly reduce their detection accuracy, because they are only needing very small adjustment in certain areas. Your engine is totally different.
A teardown could be a waste of time if you find nothing, but previously people have found ring lands, valve train issues to explain this sort of thing (not just on 4G63). I can't see anything but a teardown telling you the "why". I would probably start by looking at the valvetrain, followed by taking the head off and then looking at the short motor, but I'm not a mechanic.
Apr 23, 2009, 10:15 AM
#25
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I have been plagued with this type of knocking recently as i started to up the boost on my biuld. My motor is forged, evo 9 turbo, 24psi, tapering to 18 on 93oct + meth.
I will do some logs like jcsbanks suggested and post them up later.
I will do some logs like jcsbanks suggested and post them up later.
Jul 16, 2009, 07:30 PM
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I hate to bring this thread back up but i would like to see if there are any odd parallels. I've got a pretty good "control" car. It's a 2.3 with HKS 272's and nothing else.
Not stock stuff:
10W30 Dyno Oil (for break in)
AMSOil in the tranny and transfer case
Exedy sprung puck clutch
No strut tower bar or under bars for the moment.
Weisco Stroker Pistons
Nitrided & polished crank
Manley Rods
ARP hardware / head studs.
Ebay MBC
That's ALL i can think of that's not stock. Any of you other guys getting LOTS of false knock having anythign similar?
I do have a couple buzzes. One is the MBC in first gear the ball buzzes a little but not during my knock events. Basically when the car is just getting rolling from a stop. The other is the transmission. The AMSOil seems to be more noisy than stock and royal purple. I'm going to swap that out when i do an oil change this weekend. I'm also going to try some heavier engine oil jsut to see...
Not stock stuff:
10W30 Dyno Oil (for break in)
AMSOil in the tranny and transfer case
Exedy sprung puck clutch
No strut tower bar or under bars for the moment.
Weisco Stroker Pistons
Nitrided & polished crank
Manley Rods
ARP hardware / head studs.
Ebay MBC
That's ALL i can think of that's not stock. Any of you other guys getting LOTS of false knock having anythign similar?
I do have a couple buzzes. One is the MBC in first gear the ball buzzes a little but not during my knock events. Basically when the car is just getting rolling from a stop. The other is the transmission. The AMSOil seems to be more noisy than stock and royal purple. I'm going to swap that out when i do an oil change this weekend. I'm also going to try some heavier engine oil jsut to see...
Last edited by Rob_GPT; Jul 16, 2009 at 07:33 PM.
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