Originally Posted by RoadSpike

Have you tried making a set of det cans? Maybe you could hear mechanical noise that is unusual that way?

Originally Posted by Jorge T

This topic is extremely interesting. I'm not clear on the use of the term "timing at peak torque" or is it "peak load", which in my car happen at 2 different rpm range.

Originally Posted by honki24

Just as a clarification, I had a turbo failure due to negative timing which was a result of using low timing that got pulled lower by the inevitable knock counts that come with road racing. My point is this: If you're going to be in boost 20 minutes straight it is a different story than the street. You have to realize your car WILL pull timing over that 20 minute period. If you start low, you're eventually going to go lower. If you start at 0-2 degrees at peak torque you will have periods of time (in 4th and 5th gears) that will be -1 or -2 degrees. That means that you will have at least 1-2 more degrees of "ignition" (flames) that are going from the power stroke into the exhaust stroke. And if you have modified cam timing/cams you compound that problem.

I'm not trying to spook anyone, but realize the answer needs to be defined by the circumstances surrounding it. My rule of thumb is no less than 5 because it WILL go lower even if you run 11:1 on the track. On the street I got away with it all the time. I could make more power and pull much stronger with less timing an more boost all day long.... but 2-5 second pulls are entirely different than 19-20 minutes of 23psi.

On a side note -- I thought you wanted peak cylinder pressures to be 11 deg atdc.

Originally Posted by mrfred

When I was running pump gas, I never that much random knock except when I had my POS Vishnu mail-in flash. After I tuned it myself, knock was always 5 counts or less, usually no more than 3 counts in a pull.

Originally Posted by GST Motorsports

10v of fury?

Originally Posted by mrfred

The knock control tables in the 10 ROM are identical in form to the ones in the 8/9 ROM, so I'm guessing that if the Evo 10 knock sensor has the same form factor as the 8/9 knock sensor, then it can be bolted on to an Evo 8/9 and the knock tables adjusted to make it work like it was there from the beginning.

Originally Posted by house_of_senate

Im at 4 degrees at peak torque right now but need to lower it back down to where it was at 1 or so. Since I keep getting a few random counts, does it seem reasonible to start at 1 or so at peak tq, then a slow climb to 6 or 7 degrees by 7500? To the guys that run this little of timing, what is your ramp rate like? As in, timing vs rpm during a pull. I know all cars are different, Im just looking for a good starting point.

Thanks

Originally Posted by dan l

If lowering timing reduces knock it is real knock. Try reducing boost and raising timing to a decent level if you are worried about EGT's taking out the turbo (highly unlikely).

Originally Posted by dan l

What happens when you raise the octane of the fuel with race gas?

Edit: Also have you ever sent your oil out for analysis? A rod bearing going out will cause similar issues. Double check that your in time. Double check that the balance shafts are in phase and not accidentally 180 degrees out. Do you know how to check the 2:1 balance shaft for phase?

Originally Posted by JohnBradley

Good point, Is the car really vibey (vibration prone) at idle and through the rev range?