So basically, in the Tephra Mod Options section, the "Enable Alt Map Master" should be set to '1'. In the MODS section, the 'Alt Map time to Activete' should be 1500ms. The Alt map Load Threshold should be 110, and the Alt Map ADC0F Threshold should be 3.01v. If those are set in the ROM, its probably the wiring for the ECU Pin.

 

i've noticed the alt maps dropping out at WOT on two seperate roms before. it only did it under WOT just like youjr experiencing. we wire ours different then JOT though (MUCH more simple), so i would say JOTs harness isn't the issue, especially if you have bench tested it. our problems i think had to m=possibly do with the aquamist box that we were using as the switch for altmap. i haven't gotten around to logging the altmap signal though, which i will be doing in a week or so. the customer sold the aquamist kit and is switching to e85. i should know immediately if the aquamist or the rom is the issue.

 

ok, so I have been busy with school and a midterm already in my dynamics class...

thanks for your help Jamie. Im slowly but surely figuring out what the issue is.
I have been doing a lot of logging on the issue, and have figured out a few things.
The Alt map ROM and everything is set up properly and working just fine. The issue is exactly what tephra said in the first post.
The switch works only when im sitting in ON with out having the motor on. As soon as I start the motor it doesnt remain at 4.8v.
i noticed that it only drops when it starts to go into alt maps; as soon as i get 4 on the log for Alt map about 1000ms later voltage drops on average to 2.2v ranging to ~.8v.
I have tested the connections by both invasive and non-invasive methods and can say with 90% confidence that the wiring is getting good connections at the solder joint. the ADC0F pin doesnt change voltage when in ON and motor off...but i cant make a good determination if jostling ADC0F while the motor is on may be causing the poor connection.
I "borrowed" a good multimeter from school, and I'll be checking it this afternoon to get more info.

other random thoughts...
couldnt I rig up a switch from pin#84 (4.7v) to the ADC0F? maybe put in a 12k resistor in parallel to keep the amperage in the .1mA range?
Also, how much amperage are we supposed to be seeing on the pin? I did a lot of (bad) math and mesh current (bs-ing) stuff, and got a total of somthing like 4.5mA going to the pin. Im going to be checking this later and see if maybe the problem is lack of current to keep the diode on...
i calculated the resistance on (only) the diode to ADC0F pin, and got something like 630ohms (diode=~22ohm)...which i dont think is right, but am I to assume that the ECU has an internal resistance in the Megaohm range?

more to come later.

 

Sorry, got company coming over and only had a chance to breeze through your post. The internal resistance of the ADC0F input is 100k ohms. So you're looking at a current draw of about .005mA from the ADC0F circuit. I'd tap the multi-meter you borrowed to the exact power and ground locations you're using and have the car on, then start it and see if there is any fluctuation from either your power or ground source. I still find it hard to believe that you have 2 bad harness' but I suppose its possible. If that's the case, if you send it back I can send you a new one.

 

k, so I think my prolem might be feedback coming from the chasis ground. I measured everything with the dmm.
Results: ign ON, motor off
12supply= 12.6V
ground= -14mV
adc0f= 4.82V

results: ign ON, motor ON
12v supply= 12.86V avg
ground= -44mV at idle, -86mv at 3k rpm
adc0f= 4.9v then drop to 10mV for a split second, then back to 4.9V, then repeat every couple milliseconds. (wish I had an oscilloscope...) occurs most prominently when rpm's are going up, returns to 4.9v at idle, then back to the occasional drop.

so what I'm thinking is that I'm getting current coming down the ground wire to the cathode turning off the diode. Is that logical? Or am I not understanding how diodes work...lol

I think my solution is to find a clean ground.

bad news, I broke the adc0f wire off the pin when I went to check the amps on it.... I think it fatigued after tugging on it too many times to check if vibration caused the drop. Back to the old harness...

 

ok - so its not the ROM

was getting worried for a little bit then...

 

^heh, yea it's not the rom your roms (5 & 5.1) work great. I'm going to try another way of wiring the switch using my extra fuse block with dedicated grounds.

 

did u say you had a aquamist setup?

 

I wish I could afford a meth setup on my student aid

I was thinking one easy solution is to just do a simple voltage divider circuit to get ~3v @ .005mA max, and not worry about the reverse voltage.

So I did some more math on the circuit (only the pin/diode side, not the LED side that one I understand).
Total resistance of the Zener circuit is about 1018ohm when the diode is on, and ~1099ohm when the diode opens.
Based on that I get a theoretical voltage of .216v when the diode is on and 1.188v when the diode is open. These kinda correspond to the voltages I was getting when the motor is on....prolly just coincidence, and bad math on my part tho, as I'm not familiar with how Zener/schotsky/etc diodes work.

 

This thread has got me thinking about those of use who use Altmap for our E85 maps. I use a very simply harness for my ADC0F connection. I simply use a 5V source, with a pushbutton switch wired right to the ADC0F pin. I have never had any problems with this setup and have been running E85 without issue for a while.

However, IIRC, tephra designed the altmaps to only change to the altmaps if the conditions are met (voltage threshold, time to activate, etc)....but the switch back is instantaneous based on the voltage threshold, correct? If so, then it may be a better practice to use the main maps as the E85 maps and the alt maps as the pump gas maps. If the wire for the altmaps comes off or loses signal during a high boost WOT run on E-85, you will instantly go 30% leaner.

However, the timing is the opposite, where the E85 timing for the same load will be more aggressive, so if we used pump gas for the alt maps and it failed, then fueling would instantly jump 30% (which is OK), but the timing may jump also (depening on what load ranges you are in and have tuned for E85), which is bad.

Hmmm....so what does everyone do to combat this possibility? Do you run E85 as your main maps or your alt maps?

Tephra, can their maybe be a future option in the altmaps for delay conditions in switching from or to the alt maps? I think this would solve this sort of problem with a potentially bad connection or failure of a connection to the ADC0F pin altogether, assuming the failure or issue occurs at WOT. For example, something like switch back delay or Altermap map time to deactivate....0 for instant, or a time value.

Or maybe something to protect a change at WOT...maybe like alt map deactive only when TPS or load is less than a certain value. That way if you go WOT on an alt map and you don't want it to change (you don't have a failsafe for meth or something like that), then don't change at WOT no matter what. Basically, just what you have now for conditions, but allow us to apply them for changing to or changing from alt maps.


Eric

 

well V7 will include altmap switching by TPS, like valet...

so that will help e85 users.

adc0f is really designed for meth failsafe

 

Yeah, that's a good point. I think I may switch to the TPS switching just for this reason. The ADC0F has worked perfectly for me, but a potential future failure wouldn't be good.

 

One more quick question, for tephra or anyone who knows.

If I use TPS for alt map switching, is there a variable that I can log to see whether I am in alt maps or not? Mut83 was for the ADC0F pin, but if I use TPS, there has to be a variable holding the state of alt maps, right?


Eric

 

There is an MUT location that monitors whether the alt maps are active or inactive,regardless of how its switched. I believe its a 0 if its in the standard maps and 3 if its in the alt maps. I forget the address off the top of my head. The TPS switching seems safest for E85 users while the ADC0F switching is safest for high boost/low boost or alky/pump gas tunes.

 

Yeah, I need to know that variable. Hopefully Tephra will see this and let me know. Searching through the tephramod threads takes forever. : )