Email is:

thomas dot klemann at forceprotection dot net.

A long time ago, back in 2007, there was an influx of people in the ECUFlash forum that wanted nothing but free maps and have the regulars in the forum tune thier cars basically for free and didn't want to put any effort into things. I just didn't want to appear that way as way back when those people were quite annoying. Now that my car is up and running again, and I have my ECU back to play with, I am going to be jumping back into this forum to contribute more now..

Anyhow, carry on....

And thanks Aaron!

 

That seems to me a pretty crazy idle timing set-up.. 17* at idle? That actually works?

 

For the cams in question, yes, even on a 2.4 When the car breaks in we can usually back the timing back down to 14-15* to get it to idle correctly. Even with MIVEC the "Tara" cams are still noticeable.

 

Here is the timing map I am going to be using and starting from. What do you think about this? I don't know if I can get myself to go any higher than 8* on the idle, unless you tell me differently. I am still having trouble processing that 17*. Haha!

Overall, what are your thoughts on this?

EDIT: Boost is going to be around 28-29psi out of a IX Turbo... I am targeting 11.5-11.8 flat across the board as I usually do..

 

Idle timing is just combo dependent its not needed if you dont need it. We needed 17* in this case, you might need 8* in yours

 

The thing I am trying to understand though, is how do you come to the conclusion that you *need* that much timing? Other than just listening to the motor, and watching Evoscan data, how do you get to the point of knowing that XX* of timing is where it needs to be?

I have always kept my idle at roughly 8* with my S2 cams, and heavily built high strung motor, and the idle around 1000 because anything less it likes to stall out too easily. (Lightened and knife edged crank with no balance shafts, tilton clutch etc all makes for a motor turning with little intertia to keep it turning..) It seemed to work better than 5*, but I didn't really notice much of a difference when I would increase it more than that. (ie, the motor didn't really act any different..)

I think I might also need to send my injectors out as well to be cleaned which may be compounding the stalling issues I am having. I replaced the entire fuel system with stainless AN lines, and stupid me forgot to clean out all the lines (Pre & Post external fuel filter) before installing everything. I have this sneaky suspicion that the little filters before the inectors might be full of all the chop saw dust from cutting the lines. Doh!

 

Experience.

Other than that like you said, listening to it, keeping the idle stable at a reasonable rpm (like 1000), making sure it doesnt stall ALL the time when you come up to a light or turn the AC on.

I run 8* in stock motors for comparison, anything with cams is 13-15* usually. A lot of why and how I do things comes from 20 years of domestics, bikes, imports, etc. I know that a big cam big block doesnt like less than 12-14* at idle (since they are base timing plus curve there are other things too) and 40-42* out the top on the dyno.

There is the other thing about me and tuning is sometimes I tune by feel which I cant teach nor describe. I do what the car wants and what I know should work and it generally just seems to fix the issues. The fact that we have 5 people in our 6 man crew that tune cars helps since we can bounce ideas off of each other if we happen to get stuck on a car.

p.s. Always run brake clean through lines after you cut them.

aaron

 

That's generally exactly how I have tuned almost all the cars I have, by feeling what the car is doing like you. With the case of my car, it has worked out extremely well..

And I am pretty sure what happened after I cut the lines, I laid them all out, admired how pretty stainless AN lines looked, rewarded myself with Southern Comfort 100, then forgot to clean after the SoCo. Oh well, at least the SoCo was good...

 

thats why in my email i explained i upped my idle few degrees also in my timimg map but indicated to you incase you werent **** about smooth idle. the previous owners tune had about 8 degrees at idle and it idled like this "blop blop blop......" with rpm bouncing 100rpm constantly.

after i pumped it about 11 degrees, it stabilized and idled like "brmmmmmmm..... blop... brmmmmm... blop"... much better. k?

 

Hahaha... Nice! I have been upping it cautiously whenever I drive it. I am up to 12* now... Gotta tip off the fuel tail tonight to check the injector pre-filters though.

I have this wierd suspicion I will find tons of crap in them.. Damn SoCo.

 

Tune rich is the other thing. Open loop and 13.0 or 13.5 idle makes a HUGE difference.

 

There's your problem right there Tom Tom, IX turbos belong on IX's. That's TOO much turbo for an 8....

 

Just want to say thanks Aaron for sharing your experience and real-life numbers.

Cheers

 

 

Hi Tom,

You might have to calclulate alot of logs to find the biggest gain in efficiency. An ideal method would be on a load dyno or road with the ability to make on the fly timing flashes to rom as you drive. But I don't think thats available yet

ps For idle, I have to run 16*-20* lead with exh valves adv 2CA* away from performance to keep idle combustion reasonable, this is at 1100-1200rpm