something was causing noise in your engine somewhere german_evoVII. i had to fine tune my knock settings also when i put together my 2.3L. just reving in neutral was showing 30 counts. the op already lowered timing a lot and it still exists and i just assumed he logged knock when it was occurring.

but yes knock will pull timing absolutely, and can occur even at cruise if somethings noisey in the engine bay, which requires the sensor to be reconfigured for the additional pickup noises.

 

Either its knocking or false knocking and pulling timing or its the mat is over 120deg and its pulling timing.

 

I posted a log with knock included. Zero knock when this happens.

 

The global ignition settings ( ignition trim vs air temp) doesn't work like that.

Those tables for example are if you're running 33deg timing and the tables set for -2 or -3 it will turn that 33 deg into 31 or 30.. its not a target its just a number of degrees to pull from the current existing timing.

 

email sent to your vr-speed addy.
/
heres a diff log. Should i log maf hz aswell?

 

Confused on a few things, not going to comment on what I think of the map right now.

In the log, you are 2,000r and 0" of vacuum (according to the map sensor) and 125 load on average. That in itself is kind of odd since the car should make enough power to not run 0" of vacuum there. Since the baro and IAT are probably sea level and well under 60*F the car will run the compensated 2 byte load (raw, load + baro, and load + baro + temp) for those conditions...I cant remember which exactly it drops to but I do remember there is a 20% load change between the 3 from when I used to log them.

Add 20 and look in the 140-150 column, and it drops to 3* cruising. Misfires and odd noise can drop the timing the rest of the way variable like that.

Now for the map-

It looks like it is globally about 10* too low other than idle. Does the car have a balance shaft out of phase? This might sound silly but the requestID for knock in Evoscan hasnt been changed in either EvoScan or the MUT table?

A knock sensor that isnt working goes to some secret knock limp map and will do similar things but will normally show 9 counts of knock and throw a code. An unplugged MAF will do the same thing, I have driven a car down the road at 2* of timing completely independent of the map. The CEL had a bad/missing bulb and the only reason I thought to check was I had been logging fuel trims and noticed the timing being WAY odd.

Just some ideas.

 

I used 14.5 for the baro compensation in EVO scan.. given that I am @ 500ish feet. I dont know enough about the car to commment on the balance shaft out of phase. I have had it since october of 2010. As much as id like to just add 10*, (lol), I see what youre saying, but so long as the changes are smooth and not sudden, would the car really have hesitation/studder issues if it were smooth yet, far to low? The car behaved identical when it was untuned.

Shall I try to paste a stock timing map in there and give that another go? I really wanted to aim for a docile setup here, smooth, not inching for a ton of power. Just want a seamless running car.

I do see the numbers being logged, reflected in the map, but they definatley dont correspond to where I suppose.

arron, does what youre suggesting, suggest that in cold weather this would probably exacerbate the problem? That is what my gut says, but I havent had a 60 degree day in a while here...

 

I responded to your email. who told you to flatten a timing map like a pancake in cruise area? thats the last thing you want to do.

 

I was kinda wondering the same thing as JB... It seems as if these logs were taken going up hill.
2k rpm cruising on a flat road should not be 120 load nor 0psi/vac. Seems as if the car is 'struggling' to just get along. Sure there's no boost leaks and fuel trims are good?

 

These are not cruising steady state . This is literally light accel, & and incline. Say you want to go from 50 mph to 55. Good luck. This is what makes cruising on the highway difficult . I'll snag a log of steady state. I'll have to put my car inside over the weekend to thaw it for boost leak test again. As I increase timing to the right, the numbers that it bobbles on become higher too. Ie now its bobbling +7 ..+10

Tsc offered some help but I do realize there is hardware to check before I waste any more time. Friday can't get here quick enough.

 

I tripple checked everything on these cars. There were all stock Engine cars, Intake and Exhaust, thats all. Nothing rattles, Balancers in phase. Nothing ho hear with Knock phones. Weird thing was that they doesnt do it all the time. Also changed the knock sensitivity settings to those of an built 2.3 , but still the same.
I also believe, that it was maybe a dying knock sensor, because it got worse when the hot car was running a few minutes steady ( parking lot ).
No codes show up, but octane number was NOT counting down. So it was not the normal behavior for knocking.
I believe there is an additional process handling these things in the Ecu, pulling timing but not lowering octane number,also under load.

 

all I can say is that increasing timing values very far to the right of what the log suggests my load is at: has decreased the issue drastically but it is still there faintly. It has a lot less of the two step sound when it happens, and the timing swings are less. I undid my pancaked cruise map , and started from a stock 88590015 timing map. I had no theory on that, I was just literally shooting in the dark. It took a few "map tracer" logs to understand better what is going on. A re read of the timing thread never hurt either. TSC, im not trying to disrespect your ambition to help me out, but this is something I must ultimately complete by my own finger tips(or... I really see no point in owning this car if I cant ). Asking for help along the way is what the forum is for


... How about my bypass valve; Its a crushed IX valve, does the fact that it has a very poor response come into play here? A few valves I know remain partially opened during part throttle and cruise, but mine with out a doubt has no bypass function unless Im wayyy into boost. The slightest hint of a let off at cruise/higher rpm makes some star wars noises.

 

I haven't looked at your logs, but what load are you logging? Are you sure you are using the correct load that the timing map is following? You may be in completely different cells than you think.

For intake temps of 77F and below baro+temp compensated load is used and above 77F baro compensated load is used.

 

MUT 2byte.

heres a little cruise, a slow down then WOT pull. about 22psi.

some one strings,. still studdering just not nearly as bad.. Basically a JDM mivec map with the dip in the midrange removed.

 

Okay what hex value is in the MUT table for the 2byte you are using... that will tell us what load you are using...

One thing to also check... are you on a tephra moded ROM? If so see if NLTS is enabled. If it is disable it and save the rom. Flash that rom with NLTS disabled... I have personally had issues with the NLTS patch and it caused a similar problem...