Tephra NLTS mod pros/cons
Tephra NLTS mod pros/cons
I've done quite a bit of reading on the Tephra NLTS mod but am still a little concerned... I know the point of the NLTS mod is to allow you to shift quicker while minimizing drivetrain shock... but how does it affect the clutch? I'm assuming this would put excessive wear on the clutch, right?
This thread has some great info, thanks schiedes.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...beginners.html
I'm trying out NLTS tomorrow and just want to make sure I have the right understanding of the tables.
For NLTS load threshold it says: "Load must be UNDER this value for NLTS to be allowed to activate : 150"
Same for Speed it says it must be UNDER the value... that makes no sense. Shouldn't it be OVER the value? Activating NLTS at 19 MPH doesn't seem like a good idea...
This thread has some great info, thanks schiedes.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...beginners.html
I'm trying out NLTS tomorrow and just want to make sure I have the right understanding of the tables.
For NLTS load threshold it says: "Load must be UNDER this value for NLTS to be allowed to activate : 150"
Same for Speed it says it must be UNDER the value... that makes no sense. Shouldn't it be OVER the value? Activating NLTS at 19 MPH doesn't seem like a good idea...
clutch wear is about all you have to worry about but I don't think you'll see that much unless your using it constantly, and while I don't have my computer with ecuflash, however from what I recall the descriptions are incorrect. The TPS threshold must be exceeded, the speed threshold must be exceeded and the load threshold must be exceeded. I have no idea why it says under.
If you wish to verify this go set your load to 0 speed to 0 and tps to 20, you should be able to engage it without moving the car. Then bring the speed up and watch the effect disappear, same with load.
The stock settings have worked fine for me, and I would suggest using them.
If you wish to verify this go set your load to 0 speed to 0 and tps to 20, you should be able to engage it without moving the car. Then bring the speed up and watch the effect disappear, same with load.
The stock settings have worked fine for me, and I would suggest using them.
Last edited by akeric; Dec 20, 2011 at 09:58 PM.
Clutch discs are not designed for 'slipping' as a primary goal, they are meant to grip. Slipping is a convenience feature for more enjoyable driving for the average consumer. The faster you get the discs to grip, the better off you are, as far as wear is concerned.
For even faster gripping, remove the restrictor in your slave cylinder.
Also, get underneath the dash and make sure your upper clutch switch is fully depressed when the clutch pedal is as high as it goes. Otherwise, it will take the slightest breath on your clutch pedal to activate the NLTS.
-Jamie
For even faster gripping, remove the restrictor in your slave cylinder.
Also, get underneath the dash and make sure your upper clutch switch is fully depressed when the clutch pedal is as high as it goes. Otherwise, it will take the slightest breath on your clutch pedal to activate the NLTS.
-Jamie
Last edited by Dynotech Tuning; Dec 21, 2011 at 09:05 AM.
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Like Jamie said, the only con I've noticed with NLTS, is driving around town/highway in a non-race situation where I will be WOT for a few seconds and just barely touch the clutch and NLTS activates.
What I do now is, when I am on the street I leave NLTS off and only activate it while I am at the drag strip.
NLTS when your not expecting it causes nasty whiplash, ask me how I know
-Bink
What I do now is, when I am on the street I leave NLTS off and only activate it while I am at the drag strip.
NLTS when your not expecting it causes nasty whiplash, ask me how I know
-Bink
Like Jamie said, the only con I've noticed with NLTS, is driving around town/highway in a non-race situation where I will be WOT for a few seconds and just barely touch the clutch and NLTS activates.
What I do now is, when I am on the street I leave NLTS off and only activate it while I am at the drag strip.
NLTS when your not expecting it causes nasty whiplash, ask me how I know
-Bink
What I do now is, when I am on the street I leave NLTS off and only activate it while I am at the drag strip.
NLTS when your not expecting it causes nasty whiplash, ask me how I know
-Bink
For NLTS load threshold it says: "Load must be UNDER this value for NLTS to be allowed to activate : 150"
Same for Speed it says it must be UNDER the value... that makes no sense. Shouldn't it be OVER the value? Activating NLTS at 19 MPH doesn't seem like a good idea...
Same for Speed it says it must be UNDER the value... that makes no sense. Shouldn't it be OVER the value? Activating NLTS at 19 MPH doesn't seem like a good idea...
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Okay thanks for all the replies guys. I tried out NLTS with these settings last night :
Load : 150
TPS : 98
MPH : 19
DROP : 800 rpm
I performed the test in 3rd gear at 3000 rpm (WOT then push clutch in) my rpms dropped but there was no rev limiter... the rpms just dropped from 3250 to 2500 (check attached log) and stayed there... then as soon as I started moving my foot off the gas the rpms shot to the sky. Should I be hitting a rev limiter like the stationary limiter? Or is it just a fuel cut? Just want to know if it's working correctly.
That was the exact plan I had... use it only at the strip. Last night I accidently hit it while shifting WOT and it was pretty violent haha
Load : 150
TPS : 98
MPH : 19
DROP : 800 rpm
I performed the test in 3rd gear at 3000 rpm (WOT then push clutch in) my rpms dropped but there was no rev limiter... the rpms just dropped from 3250 to 2500 (check attached log) and stayed there... then as soon as I started moving my foot off the gas the rpms shot to the sky. Should I be hitting a rev limiter like the stationary limiter? Or is it just a fuel cut? Just want to know if it's working correctly.
Like Jamie said, the only con I've noticed with NLTS, is driving around town/highway in a non-race situation where I will be WOT for a few seconds and just barely touch the clutch and NLTS activates.
What I do now is, when I am on the street I leave NLTS off and only activate it while I am at the drag strip.
NLTS when your not expecting it causes nasty whiplash, ask me how I know
-Bink
What I do now is, when I am on the street I leave NLTS off and only activate it while I am at the drag strip.
NLTS when your not expecting it causes nasty whiplash, ask me how I know
-Bink
That was the exact plan I had... use it only at the strip. Last night I accidently hit it while shifting WOT and it was pretty violent haha
It doesn't seem to be a rev limit like the stationary rev limit. I believe it's just a quick fuel cut to bring the rpms down. I think it seems to be smoother then banging gears and dumping the clutch. Either way it's AWESOME!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwXriq5Cl7s
You can see how smooth the rpm drop is in mchristian's video.
I've also experienced the slight touch whiplash Binky was talking about, that's not so cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwXriq5Cl7s
You can see how smooth the rpm drop is in mchristian's video.
I've also experienced the slight touch whiplash Binky was talking about, that's not so cool.
Ok I'll give it another try today.
I figured it was supposed to bounce off the rev limiter as described in this post :
I figured it was supposed to bounce off the rev limiter as described in this post :
If it's your first time, do yourself a favor and put the car in third gear at 3000rpms. Go WOT and then push the clutch to the floor AND HOLD IT THERE. If the engine free revs, let off the gas instantly. If it drops down and bounces off of the rev limiter at 2200rpm (or whatever) then you're golden. Let off the gas, then gently let out the clutch and continue driving.
Try it again at 4500 a few times, do not dump the clutch out yet. Get a feeling for holding the clutch and gas pedal to the floor at the same time; you need to unlock the seesaw in your mind between these two pedals, its been there for however many years and its not going away easily
Now go WOT @ 3000rpm in third gear and try a slow NLTS at 4500rpms or so. Gas pedal is pinned to the floor, clutch to the floor, verify motor is not free revving to the moon as you shift to fourth, then quickly but gently let out the clutch and keep your right foot pinned WOT. You should be about 3500rpm in 4th gear and accelerating hard. Let off the gas, giggle, and then do it again at a higher rpm.
Try it again at 4500 a few times, do not dump the clutch out yet. Get a feeling for holding the clutch and gas pedal to the floor at the same time; you need to unlock the seesaw in your mind between these two pedals, its been there for however many years and its not going away easily
Now go WOT @ 3000rpm in third gear and try a slow NLTS at 4500rpms or so. Gas pedal is pinned to the floor, clutch to the floor, verify motor is not free revving to the moon as you shift to fourth, then quickly but gently let out the clutch and keep your right foot pinned WOT. You should be about 3500rpm in 4th gear and accelerating hard. Let off the gas, giggle, and then do it again at a higher rpm.
I think there is a patch out there somewhere but I would just consider having your current tune transferred over to a tephra7 rom, it shouldn't be difficult (although it might be tedious) tephra7 offers alot more than just NLTS.
Okay thanks for all the replies guys. I tried out NLTS with these settings last night :
Load : 150
TPS : 98
MPH : 19
DROP : 800 rpm
I performed the test in 3rd gear at 3000 rpm (WOT then push clutch in) my rpms dropped but there was no rev limiter... the rpms just dropped from 3250 to 2500 (check attached log) and stayed there... then as soon as I started moving my foot off the gas the rpms shot to the sky. Should I be hitting a rev limiter like the stationary limiter? Or is it just a fuel cut? Just want to know if it's working correctly.
That was the exact plan I had... use it only at the strip. Last night I accidently hit it while shifting WOT and it was pretty violent haha
Load : 150
TPS : 98
MPH : 19
DROP : 800 rpm
I performed the test in 3rd gear at 3000 rpm (WOT then push clutch in) my rpms dropped but there was no rev limiter... the rpms just dropped from 3250 to 2500 (check attached log) and stayed there... then as soon as I started moving my foot off the gas the rpms shot to the sky. Should I be hitting a rev limiter like the stationary limiter? Or is it just a fuel cut? Just want to know if it's working correctly.
That was the exact plan I had... use it only at the strip. Last night I accidently hit it while shifting WOT and it was pretty violent haha
Sounds like its working fine, I think it should have a rev limit but I never really tested it with the throttle down and clutch in for more than how long it takes to shift. In your case when your throttle dropped below 98% it turned NLTS off and so the rpms shot up. When you push the clutch it NLTS drops your rpms (in this case) to 800 below where you pushed the clutch in at.....3250 down to 2500 is about 800. Then you take your foot off the clutch after switching gears and your off.
Ideally your not going to be shifting that low in rpm.....for example I shift at 7k it drops to 6200 without me taking the foot off the gas so the turbo stays spooled and I'm not bouncing off my 8200rpm rev limit. If you think powershifting (i.e. foot on gas and dropping the clutch) is bad at 6000rpm, its worse at 8200, plus then your outside your powerband (at least I am at 8200). That is what NLTS is for.
My rev limiter is at 8200 because with my MR 6spd thats what I need to finish the 1/4 mile in 4th gear.
Last edited by akeric; Dec 21, 2011 at 02:45 PM.
Ok so I tried NLTS on my car while shifting around 6k. It worked pretty well and it sounds soooo cool 
Only problem I had was that it was a little jerky sometimes. I think I was just letting off of the clutch too slow. I was shifting pretty slow because I wasn't used to it yet. For now I think I'll shift normally but when I go to the track I'll definitely use NLTS. Great mod!
Only problem I had was that it was a little jerky sometimes. I think I was just letting off of the clutch too slow. I was shifting pretty slow because I wasn't used to it yet. For now I think I'll shift normally but when I go to the track I'll definitely use NLTS. Great mod!