New 3D VE Maps SD Rom
 

Thought I'd make a new thread instead of cluttering up John's

This isn't really for discussion if this rom works its simply done and the rest is porting it over to new ones. I can't test this myself as my evo is gone :P

Should be a straight forward test will work or wont

9417 Variant:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OHSFQUIN

9563 Variant:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4CAOEDQ8

I'll patch in the others once i get some confirmation the rom actually runs a car. Its a lot more tedious to patch now that I'm completely rewriting the SD sub from scratch to handle these new load points.

New Table JPG:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...1&d=1298095294

So this is a 9417 v7 rom? Might be time to switch back from 9653.

You don't have to I just need it tested before i can implement it on the 9653 rom. I know the ins and outs of the 9417 better thats why i'm starting here.

I wasn't under the impression there was a v7 sd rom for 9417.

Has been for a long time :D

I thought that the SD 9417 was taken out of that thread. Might have to go revisit it.

Apparently i am an idiot. Gonna have a look at this tomorrow maybe.

Very cool. Any tips on how to expand the values in our 2, 2D tables into the 3D table? I think I remember some discussion in the SD 2.0 thread, I'll take a look there too and see if I can get this working.

Many thanks to you and all who continue to work on this stuff! :beer:

Any chance of this being a stand alone patch for the 9653xxx6 or will it only be coded into the V7 ROM?

WOW...great work. Looks like my help on the 9417 XML has gone to good use. I can't wait to get back from my deployment so I can play with SD.

It appears that many of the SD tables are not fully defined with all of the addresses and scalings ? ?

Great work on the 3D VE table though....WOW

lets get some screen shots of what it looks like.

I can test 9653 for you.. I have it SD ready and have run the 9653 SD though have reverted to MAF untill the jitters are sorted fully. Good work.

the xml link is invalid.

Just DL it and check it out. Looking good. Looks like a real VE table now. Great job.

Worked fine for me.

Well just in case here's the original post with the xml and rom.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/9032588-post41.html

Roadspike I gotta tell you great job on this again. I always thought the 2d VE map was not up to the task. And to me a 3d table is the proper way to do it.

Now everyones gonna have to use a load dyno, so they can accurately setup this real 3D VE table. :D

OK now to try to address all the comments:

9653 Rom Probes:
Yes I'll code the 9653 rom soon but FIRST I would like this current one tested no point in me doing the code twice if it doesn't work. I need simply a verfication of it work.

Coding Probes:
I left my coding addresses in the XML so you can see how it was done pretty simple I may add.

XML Concerns:
I used phenems XML as the base to this experiment I'm sorry if they don't contain all of the tables properly defined. Remember I only added 6 tables here :P

Edit:
Oh I guess I should mention one of these functions contains a lot of space now I bet we could write up a simple patch to monitor the MAP sensor and get a Baro reading while RPM == 0.

I would like to add one thing about the XMLs.

I have a fully defined and setup 94170715 xml, so all I did was add the 94171715 xml to the correct folder and it worked fine.

So if you have a good 94170715 xml, you may only need to add the 94171715 xml.

In for updates. Thanks for working on this.

Did find an error in my xml I was looking at the map sensor table and wondering why banks left all this space in the map determined later it was only able to use 8 spaces but i forgot to put it back.


NEW XML with correctly map sensor table.

Picture of the new ve table compared with old one.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...1&d=1296420239

^^^^Hell yeah, looks great!!!

Seems i wont get a tester very soon unless i did both so i bit the bullet and did it anyways. So please do :D

ROM Link:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7UDTG0FI

The xml btw assumes you have the base 9653 xml already from phenem :)

or drive around logging maf and hit every load possible on the maf and log.. and implement that data into the VE tables. this is what all other communities do for generating their 3d VE maps. Still probably not so bad even with manually rpm/load tracing on evoscan. similar to tuning in general.

I was waiting off for something to be released though where you drive around and it builds the map for you automatically. you dont need a dyno for this, but more convenient / easier for sure.

You can basically do that with evoscan and graphing the map.

Its usually recommended that using road data for the VE table isnt the best idea.

When setting up a VE table, you need all variables to be consistent as possible, something that can only be achieved on a dyno. This is usually very important when mapping a VE table on a standalone., because the VE table is the base for all calculations. If you get just a small error (3-5%), that can be enough to throw off calculations enough to make that car not run properly, or take much more time to map AFR/accel enrichment. Then again this is just a SD mod on a stock ECU, so its nothing like a true SA.

All that being said, people will most likely setup and tune this new 3D VE table on the road and it will probably be fine.

you mean just dumping the entire log into the evoscan and using map tracer and ticking the logged value so it just displays everything? that is true.. the new evoscan even allows you to edit the cells now also on map tracer i noticed. (and has a live mapping feature but its disabled atm :eek: )

some loads wont be possible to hit at all tho right? i understand going uphill and etc will hit different loads, but there are spots on the map that wont ever get touched/traced right?

im gonna play with this sooner then later sounds fun :D

Well the point is simply to get you in the ballpark.

To Bank's credit the VE doesn't appear to change all that much when the throttle plate is wide open so it should just max out somewhere and stay there. We have two variables to control fuel at our disposal now this table along with the fuel table.

Guess i missed this question.

No I wont be putting a standalone version together to me that seems backwards from using the already awesome v7 rom.

It wont let me extrac the compressed folder, its saying its invalid still.

Its not anything special just a zip file created with winrar should be compatible with even the stock windows compression util.

Idk I have windows 7

Same here 64 bit pro win 7 and I tried opening it with the built in explorer and it worked fine for me so i got no idea whats up.

Maybe try downloading winrar and giving it a shot?

Strange... FWIW I have the same issue. I DL the 9653 zipped xml and it says either compression corrupted, no file or invalid file when I try to unpack it. I'm presently on an XP Dell mini10.

I''ll see what else I can try...

Ok So I'll just make a second copy with the windows built in "send to compressed folder" tool. If this doesn't work i'm really at a loss :/

everything seems good. Great work!

7zip did the trick{thumbup}... For whatever reason the Windows built-in un-zipper aparently sucks.

Thanks, I agree it is a great piece of work by Tephra, However I have been reluctant to move up from the 5.10 ROM since I would only use a couple of the additions in V7, this will probably motivate me to do it though.

Thanks for the effort:beer:

Do I need to scale for my JDM 3 bar? It looks like the original 2D tables in your ROM are set up for the Omni 4 bar.

Is this where I would change the MAP scaling (old tables) and the 3D table will update?

Everything else looks pretty clear. Thanks for doing 9653... I have this ROM noodled to perfection, I was willing to go back to 9715 but this is much easier. If I get the basics roughed in like injector scale and latencies tonight I'll try to flash it to the car tomorrow and see what happens.

Thanks.

Yeah you will need to rescale I think phenom sets them to the omni 4 bar by default. Once the scalings set you should be able to just copy over your tables from the old rom.

The 3d table (the VE one) isn't really scaled to any map sensor its just a percentage thing so i'm not sure what your implying.

Ok got it on the MAP scale thanks. I guess what I'm still not understanding is if you copy the 2D tables, MAP/Kpa and RPM/VE over into the new ROM how is the 3D table generated and what are the values currently in it? Do I need to calculate those from the data in my current tables?

I noticed that in the "Speed Density Programming 3d VE" that the addressing looks incomplete. I have attached a screen shot to show this. If everything is good to go then I will transfer all of my setting over and try this out.

Roadspike,

Is this a combination of both the MAPVE and RPM VE table or just a 3D RPMVE table (basically)?

The reason I ask is the MAPVE table is a quick global adjustment and is handy for part changes retunign, where a 3D RPMVE table is very helpful for driving and fine tuning but would be slower to setup if it were the only table.

This might only affect me since I dont use a 1:1 ratio in the MAPVE table generally. If the Load point adjusts off a preset, then altering that would alter the ratio I suppose. Nice work though sir, looks very similar to the DSMlink V3 table.

aaron

Badass. Nice work guys! I wish I still had a ct9a to test this on :(

Its a 3d RPM VE table basically I'm using compensated load and rpm to produce a VE value the old table is still there just for reference to you guys ;)

I may have to make my own uncompensated load axis for the table if this simple workup doesn't suffice.

The 3d table isn't generated its just values I setup in it to get your guys started.

The old 2d table isn't used but is shown for reference.

I'd say just start and go you should be able to see if the rom works first lol which is the goal here guys :P

I'm really confused by your statement "looks imcomplete" do you mean the FF's at the end of it? Those are there because the table isn't as large as shown in that programming section.

The v7 table btw was a fuel table which i copied into the "new ve" table to get started I wouldn't just copy that over. Also are you trying to program the rom from a current one you have? If you did you just overrode one of your fuel tables, can't rememeber which one it was.

I got 7zip to extract it but when I open it its not in readable writing

Hey Roadspike. Great stuff here. 99% of which is totally foreign to me but if you need a car to test this out on just let me know.

This is so awesome! Cant wait to start playing with it.

Even the one that i posted later?

Man i don't know what to say something is up with that computer bro.

Its 2 weeks old:confused: HP G42

Both of these where compressed with the windows 7 built in compression tool if they don't work i don't think i can help ya.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/9034219-post36.html

I got it, ****s weird I had to extract it twice???

I think something is up with your computer bro no reason you need to extract twice.

You don't have one of those crappy internet "speed up" programs do you? Like netzero used to do.

comcast

I see what happened, the first time it extracted it it was a file then the second time it extracted the file to a xml. Idk Im not a computer wiz by any means.

Sounds like your computer is compressing all internet traffic thus the double extract. when i download those files here at work they only extract once.

So I add all the xml to the current 94171715 SD tephra xml or replace it?

I'd just replace it

I just replaced it, the 3D table is 199 for the entire inside of the map

Did you open up the rom that i patched or just one of yours?

My current 94171715 SD rom, download yours and copy over the 3D table??

:lol: I don't have to explain why then right?

Goto post one and download the rom i posted.

I got in the ninja edit lol

No just use the prepatched rom copying the table wont do anything with the right code behind it.

Alright, does the old 2D table still have any effect?

Map sensor one does RPM does not.

Ya thats what I meant

Ill let you know the results, wont be able to do any driving with all this snow were getting but idle and free reving. This is where I hope to see the biggest improvemnet, free rev was horrible it would bounce between extremely rich to extremely lean.

are there any plans to add this to the DMA rom?
i'll be trying this asap :) 9653 once I've copied over all my settings

It should be no problem to patch this into a DMA prepatched rom however I have no idea how to patch the DMA code into a rom, i could probably figure it out but I'd rather not :lol:.

First I want to see if this really simple way of doing things will work out. I have the fear the load will drift a bit since the table uses compensated load and if i have to i'll extend the axis table to use an uncompensated load.

So its not gonna fallow the same load Im logging in evoscan with the v7 data in evoscan?

It is but I'm not sure if it will run perfectly like that which is why i need its tested.

anything for the 8859 roms ?

Waiting for these to be tested before moving onto any new roms.

If you can modify an 8859 with this, i can test that for you if needed. I just happen to have a IX on SD sitting in the shop :)

That will have to wait until i'm off work at the very least. Probably tomarrow if i can't get any testers *sigh*

Do you still need testers for the VIII Roms ? I can probably get one of those also if i can throw up the bat signal to a couple customer cars that we have on SD. I'll get back to you.

Would be nice to have a pro test it out rather than the average joe. I really need to ensure doing the VE table this way wont make the load drift in some direction. If it does I'll have to use uncompensated load.

I also plan on getting a patch together to do like an auto Baro compensation for startups.

Honestly... the first few SD cars I tuned, including mine, i made a 3D table like the one you are using. Load technically should not drift and this is one of the things we were hoping would come out. There are definitely a few out there a lot better than me with this, but i'd be happy to do some testing if i can get the cars back to the shop.

Works for me i'll better explain the fear i got looming in my head.

Say the map sensor says the car is running 40kpa and that translates to 80 VE. Since the table is compensated its going to stray of its initial value by 80% since VE will have been that amount.

Theoretically it could bounce around some load a bit but i'm hoping its not going to be as bad as i'm imagining. If its unacceptable I think it should trivial for me to come up with my own axis instead of 2byte load for the scaling and make everyone's life a bit easier.

Dude, you've done more windows troubleshooting than rom troubleshooting. Lots of patience in here. If I had an IAT, I would test this for you right away.

Are you leaning towards truncating/2difying the fuel map and tuning your 3d VE map? Is that how tuners do SD? Forgive me as I don't tune much.

Nope i'll just leave the tables for fuel as they are just gives two places for people to tune off of. One will be like a global fuel management table and the other as a fine adjustment one i suppose.

Im just waiting for my dp to finish baking then Ima go try this. Ceramic Coating FTW.

Nice job! I have a SD Evo VIII getting dropped off at the shop next week. I will toss it on the Mustang dyno and build a nice 3D VE table and try it out :-) We already do that with the DSMlink 3d VE tables so it shouldn't take too long.

Sweet I'm going to get started on the possible issue that rom may have and figure a way to get uncompensated load as the axis point into it.

Gotta make a 9 rom now too both ways o.o;

+1

Roadspike, once you get some positive feedback, It would be great if there was a DMA ROM...SD was so much easier to set up without having to kill the car every time you make an adjustment.

I'll do it for any prepatched rom just don't expect me to patch in DMA for it alongside of this mod :)

New Roms

88591715 Standard 3D Patch:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=T00SQMOI

88591715 New Map VE Axis Patch:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=F1VCCYNX

9417 New Load Axis Patch:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y52RISA6

9653:
Not doing this just yet maybe tomorrow if i can't get testers.

Please ignore the various misc tables I'm adding we can clean up the xml, finalize it, when we can confirm it actually works.


The New load axis will use the map VE Load generated off of the Map Sensor VE table. Using this load should be independent of the map sensor voltage so no worries on that front.

So the load will be kPa(psi) instead of a load number like 250 or something?

More great work. {thumbup}

Its the scaling from the map sensor VE table. If you don't understand just don't worry about it :P

I read it fast I thought you said the load was from the MAP sensor, not the MAP VE table generated load. Im tired lol.

I'll be able to test the 9653 roms from friday :) if that helps, i'll test the rom thats in the first post to start with though,
thanks

Andy

Amazing work :)

I wish the weather wasn't so bad here. I've been waiting so long for this.

Finished up the 9653 variant with different load axis.

Now that all three are done i'm positive we should get some results on which method works the best.

9653 New Load Axis:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TJ8RM8V9

If it's not too much trouble it would be great if you could just get it into the 9653 DMA/SD ROM, I just think it would be benificial for those few of us that are using it. l2r99gst did a nice little write up a while ago for moving maps into livemap, I could give that a shot, I just hope theres room for this big boy:)