Correction Factors the same as bench racing?
Dec 28, 2009, 11:50 PM
#1
Correction Factors the same as bench racing?
I think so
Link to the same thing on my site with a Dyno Sheet
http://englishracing.net/tech/2009/1...e-bench-racing
So I will try and make this as simple as I can.
1st what are Correction factors. When you dyno a car there is a Raw HP # this is the real hp to the wheels (Called Uncorrected). Then you have what are called the Correction Factors. This takes in Elevation, Temperature, Humidity and Barometer and adj the dyno numbers. The theory on this is that every one can compare there # or you will know what the car will make in normal conditions.
Why I feel like this system for comparing dyno # can be wrong at times. I find that Correction factors are the more wrong on turbo cars.
When you are at high elevations you can run more boost and timing on the same oct fuel with out Detonation. I see lots of guys in the Colorado area that make 50-100hp off correction factor. So the question would be will that car make the same power at sea level maybe ?.
Uncorrected is the real hp to the wheels. So when you make 380whp uncorrected that is the power you feel not what it could do. One way to look at it is if X car went to a track on a 80deg day and ran a 13.0 and another guy went to the same track on a 40deg day and runs 12.5. Does his 12.5 not count?
I had to grab this sheet off line since the Corrected to Uncorrected does not very that much on my dyno. -5 to +5 % is the biggest variations i have seen on my Dyno at sea level.
This Dyno Sheet has a correction of a 1.15 and 1.14 which is adding 14-15% over the real power. I have dyno'd a couple of 700r Quads on my dyno with these mods and I do feel that the Correction would hold true to see level, but the true power that you feel when you rip on it is still 14-15% less then what the sheet is showing if you are riding in the same area the bike was tuned.
One example was a cust car that Made just over 500whp SAE Corrected in New Mexico which is around 5300ft on a dyno jet. It then came to our shop in Vancouver Washington which is sea level it only did 380whp with no changes.We did tune it back to 500| at sea level.
If you are bragging high hp # that are alot higher due to Correction, does the car even have enough fuel injector, fuel pump, ignition, strong enough hard parts to make this power for real uncorrected?
Your car is going to run down the 1/4 mi is based off of Uncorrected #.
Correction Factors may work right on a stock all motor car, But a highly modified car they are just fake # that mean nothing.
About Dynos
I will talk about the 3 major Dynos Mustang (MD), Dyno Dynamics(DD) and DynoJet(DJ)
We own a Dyno Jet so of course we are extremely biased towards Dynojet, but I feel I have very good reasons.
Dynojet dynos are a older tech style dyno and just have a heavy drum that you see how fast you can spin from point A to point B. Very simple.
Most of your Mustang and Dyno Dynamics are connected to a Eddy Current (big electric motor) They put load on the car and use a strain gauge to measure hp. While this is fine for tuning it makes it horrible to know what the # mean because the calibration can be done different or Changed by the operator from dyno to dyno.
The Mustang seem to have the most problem with operators playing with this calibration.
The Dyno Dynamics I have not heard as much about changing the HP but the Dyno Dynamics has different modes that give way different dyno # and you cant seem to tell which mode it is in by looking at the sheet. I know a Dyno Dynamics in normal mode will be about the same as a properly calibrated Mustang which is about 15% lower then a DJ, but in there shoot out mode they seem to be about the same or higher then a DJ.
When my dyno 1st opened I had few local customers that were tuned on a Dyno Dynamics that were told they would make XX hp more on a Dyno Jet. They all made the same hp or XX less on our DynoJet.
These days every one has a Dyno so swinging your hp # around is very common. While other will say that track # are the only prof. While that is kinda true so many cars that do make good hp cant run the same times as other either being, Clutch setup, weight, Safety rules, DRIVER or they just like a fast street car and don't care to race.
So having a Dyno that you can trust # is SO SO important.
We have tuned on 6 different Dyno Jets and there # are all the same.
Why People Choose the other dynos. Well quite a few years back DynoJet did not have a Eddy Current option. The Eddy Current option is very nice and sometimes needed for a tuner to get a good tune or pin point trouble areas. Sine the Mustang worked off of a Eddy current it allowed for the steady state tuning ware the DynoJet did not. Our DynoJet does have the Eddy Current option so we can still have the simple style dyno for our HP # and still have load control for tuning. Also the DynoJet with the Eddy current option is more then a Mustang.
This is my biased opinion that the Mustangs and Dyno Dynamics are great for tuning but in no way can you post your dyno # and know what they mean. The only people that can get away with posting there # are ones that have 100s of track # with HP # from there dyno so you even know what you are looking at.
[/QUOTE]
__________________
Link to the same thing on my site with a Dyno Sheet
http://englishracing.net/tech/2009/1...e-bench-racing
So I will try and make this as simple as I can.
1st what are Correction factors. When you dyno a car there is a Raw HP # this is the real hp to the wheels (Called Uncorrected). Then you have what are called the Correction Factors. This takes in Elevation, Temperature, Humidity and Barometer and adj the dyno numbers. The theory on this is that every one can compare there # or you will know what the car will make in normal conditions.
Why I feel like this system for comparing dyno # can be wrong at times. I find that Correction factors are the more wrong on turbo cars.
When you are at high elevations you can run more boost and timing on the same oct fuel with out Detonation. I see lots of guys in the Colorado area that make 50-100hp off correction factor. So the question would be will that car make the same power at sea level maybe ?.
Uncorrected is the real hp to the wheels. So when you make 380whp uncorrected that is the power you feel not what it could do. One way to look at it is if X car went to a track on a 80deg day and ran a 13.0 and another guy went to the same track on a 40deg day and runs 12.5. Does his 12.5 not count?
I had to grab this sheet off line since the Corrected to Uncorrected does not very that much on my dyno. -5 to +5 % is the biggest variations i have seen on my Dyno at sea level.
This Dyno Sheet has a correction of a 1.15 and 1.14 which is adding 14-15% over the real power. I have dyno'd a couple of 700r Quads on my dyno with these mods and I do feel that the Correction would hold true to see level, but the true power that you feel when you rip on it is still 14-15% less then what the sheet is showing if you are riding in the same area the bike was tuned.
One example was a cust car that Made just over 500whp SAE Corrected in New Mexico which is around 5300ft on a dyno jet. It then came to our shop in Vancouver Washington which is sea level it only did 380whp with no changes.We did tune it back to 500| at sea level.
If you are bragging high hp # that are alot higher due to Correction, does the car even have enough fuel injector, fuel pump, ignition, strong enough hard parts to make this power for real uncorrected?
Your car is going to run down the 1/4 mi is based off of Uncorrected #.
Correction Factors may work right on a stock all motor car, But a highly modified car they are just fake # that mean nothing.
About Dynos
I will talk about the 3 major Dynos Mustang (MD), Dyno Dynamics(DD) and DynoJet(DJ)
We own a Dyno Jet so of course we are extremely biased towards Dynojet, but I feel I have very good reasons.
Dynojet dynos are a older tech style dyno and just have a heavy drum that you see how fast you can spin from point A to point B. Very simple.
Most of your Mustang and Dyno Dynamics are connected to a Eddy Current (big electric motor) They put load on the car and use a strain gauge to measure hp. While this is fine for tuning it makes it horrible to know what the # mean because the calibration can be done different or Changed by the operator from dyno to dyno.
The Mustang seem to have the most problem with operators playing with this calibration.
The Dyno Dynamics I have not heard as much about changing the HP but the Dyno Dynamics has different modes that give way different dyno # and you cant seem to tell which mode it is in by looking at the sheet. I know a Dyno Dynamics in normal mode will be about the same as a properly calibrated Mustang which is about 15% lower then a DJ, but in there shoot out mode they seem to be about the same or higher then a DJ.
When my dyno 1st opened I had few local customers that were tuned on a Dyno Dynamics that were told they would make XX hp more on a Dyno Jet. They all made the same hp or XX less on our DynoJet.
These days every one has a Dyno so swinging your hp # around is very common. While other will say that track # are the only prof. While that is kinda true so many cars that do make good hp cant run the same times as other either being, Clutch setup, weight, Safety rules, DRIVER or they just like a fast street car and don't care to race.
So having a Dyno that you can trust # is SO SO important.
We have tuned on 6 different Dyno Jets and there # are all the same.
Why People Choose the other dynos. Well quite a few years back DynoJet did not have a Eddy Current option. The Eddy Current option is very nice and sometimes needed for a tuner to get a good tune or pin point trouble areas. Sine the Mustang worked off of a Eddy current it allowed for the steady state tuning ware the DynoJet did not. Our DynoJet does have the Eddy Current option so we can still have the simple style dyno for our HP # and still have load control for tuning. Also the DynoJet with the Eddy current option is more then a Mustang.
This is my biased opinion that the Mustangs and Dyno Dynamics are great for tuning but in no way can you post your dyno # and know what they mean. The only people that can get away with posting there # are ones that have 100s of track # with HP # from there dyno so you even know what you are looking at.
[/QUOTE]__________________
Last edited by Lucas English; Dec 29, 2009 at 09:26 PM. Reason: sheet
Dec 29, 2009, 12:07 AM
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About Dynos
I will talk about the 3 major Dynos Mustang (MD), Dyno Dynamics(DD) and Mustang(DJ)
We own a Mustang so of course we are extremely biased towards Mustang, but I feel I have very good reasons.
Dyno Jet are a older tech style dyno and just have a heavy drum that you see how fast you can spin from point A to point B. Very simple.
Most of your Dyno Jet and Dyno Jets are connected to a Eddy Current (big electric motor) They put load on the car and use a strain gauge to measure hp. While this is fine for tuning it makes it horrible to know what the # mean because the calibration can be done different or Changed by the operator from dyno to dyno.
The Dyno Jet seem to have the most problem with operators playing with this calibration.
The Dyno Jet I have not heard as much about changing the HP but the Dyno Jet has different modes that give way different dyno # and you cant seem to tell which mode it is in by looking at the sheet. I know a Dyno Jet in normal mode will be about the same as a properly calibrated Dyno Jet which is about 15% lower then a DJ, but in there shoot out mode they seem to be about the same or higher then a Dyno Jet.
When my dyno 1st opened I had few local customers that were tuned on a Dyno Jet that were told they would make XX hp more on a Dyno Jet. They all made the same hp or XX less on our Mustang.
These days every one has a Dyno so swinging your hp # around is very common. While other will say that track # are the only prof. While that is kinda true so many cars that do make good hp cant run the same times as other either being, Clutch setup, weight, Safety rules, DRIVER or they just like a fast street car and don't care to race.
So having a Dyno that you can trust # is SO SO important.
We have tuned on 6 different Mustangs and there # are all the same.
Why People Choose the other dynos. Well quite a few years back Mustang did not have a Eddy Current option. The Eddy Current option is very nice and sometimes needed for a tuner to get a good tune or pin point trouble areas. Sine the Mustang worked off of a Eddy current it allowed for the steady state tuning ware the Mustang did not. Our Mustang does have the Eddy Current option so we can still have the simple style dyno for our HP # and still have load control for tuning. Also the Mustang with the Eddy current option is more then a Mustang.
This is my biased opinion that the Mustangs and Dyno Dynamics are great for tuning but in no way can you post your dyno # and know what they mean. The only people that can get away with posting there # are ones that have 100s of track # with HP # from there dyno so you even know what you are looking at.
I will talk about the 3 major Dynos Mustang (MD), Dyno Dynamics(DD) and Mustang(DJ)
We own a Mustang so of course we are extremely biased towards Mustang, but I feel I have very good reasons.
Dyno Jet are a older tech style dyno and just have a heavy drum that you see how fast you can spin from point A to point B. Very simple.
Most of your Dyno Jet and Dyno Jets are connected to a Eddy Current (big electric motor) They put load on the car and use a strain gauge to measure hp. While this is fine for tuning it makes it horrible to know what the # mean because the calibration can be done different or Changed by the operator from dyno to dyno.
The Dyno Jet seem to have the most problem with operators playing with this calibration.
The Dyno Jet I have not heard as much about changing the HP but the Dyno Jet has different modes that give way different dyno # and you cant seem to tell which mode it is in by looking at the sheet. I know a Dyno Jet in normal mode will be about the same as a properly calibrated Dyno Jet which is about 15% lower then a DJ, but in there shoot out mode they seem to be about the same or higher then a Dyno Jet.
When my dyno 1st opened I had few local customers that were tuned on a Dyno Jet that were told they would make XX hp more on a Dyno Jet. They all made the same hp or XX less on our Mustang.
These days every one has a Dyno so swinging your hp # around is very common. While other will say that track # are the only prof. While that is kinda true so many cars that do make good hp cant run the same times as other either being, Clutch setup, weight, Safety rules, DRIVER or they just like a fast street car and don't care to race.
So having a Dyno that you can trust # is SO SO important.
We have tuned on 6 different Mustangs and there # are all the same.
Why People Choose the other dynos. Well quite a few years back Mustang did not have a Eddy Current option. The Eddy Current option is very nice and sometimes needed for a tuner to get a good tune or pin point trouble areas. Sine the Mustang worked off of a Eddy current it allowed for the steady state tuning ware the Mustang did not. Our Mustang does have the Eddy Current option so we can still have the simple style dyno for our HP # and still have load control for tuning. Also the Mustang with the Eddy current option is more then a Mustang.
This is my biased opinion that the Mustangs and Dyno Dynamics are great for tuning but in no way can you post your dyno # and know what they mean. The only people that can get away with posting there # are ones that have 100s of track # with HP # from there dyno so you even know what you are looking at.
Last edited by GST Motorsports; Dec 29, 2009 at 12:12 AM.
nice 
Dec 29, 2009, 05:31 AM
#6
Did GST write the below? I had to stop reading it cuz I couldn't understand it very well... not like GST!
About Dynos
I will talk about the 3 major Dynos Mustang (MD), Dyno Dynamics(DD) and Mustang(DJ)
We own a Mustang so of course we are extremely biased towards Mustang, but I feel I have very good reasons.
Dyno Jet are a older tech style dyno and just have a heavy drum that you see how fast you can spin from point A to point B. Very simple.
Most of your Dyno Jet and Dyno Jets are connected to a Eddy Current (big electric motor) They put load on the car and use a strain gauge to measure hp. While this is fine for tuning it makes it horrible to know what the # mean because the calibration can be done different or Changed by the operator from dyno to dyno.
The Dyno Jet seem to have the most problem with operators playing with this calibration.
The Dyno Jet I have not heard as much about changing the HP but the Dyno Jet has different modes that give way different dyno # and you cant seem to tell which mode it is in by looking at the sheet. I know a Dyno Jet in normal mode will be about the same as a properly calibrated Dyno Jet which is about 15% lower then a DJ, but in there shoot out mode they seem to be about the same or higher then a Dyno Jet.
When my dyno 1st opened I had few local customers that were tuned on a Dyno Jet that were told they would make XX hp more on a Dyno Jet. They all made the same hp or XX less on our Mustang.
These days every one has a Dyno so swinging your hp # around is very common. While other will say that track # are the only prof. While that is kinda true so many cars that do make good hp cant run the same times as other either being, Clutch setup, weight, Safety rules, DRIVER or they just like a fast street car and don't care to race.
So having a Dyno that you can trust # is SO SO important.
We have tuned on 6 different Mustangs and there # are all the same.
Why People Choose the other dynos. Well quite a few years back Mustang did not have a Eddy Current option. The Eddy Current option is very nice and sometimes needed for a tuner to get a good tune or pin point trouble areas. Sine the Mustang worked off of a Eddy current it allowed for the steady state tuning ware the Mustang did not. Our Mustang does have the Eddy Current option so we can still have the simple style dyno for our HP # and still have load control for tuning. Also the Mustang with the Eddy current option is more then a Mustang.
This is my biased opinion that the Mustangs and Dyno Dynamics are great for tuning but in no way can you post your dyno # and know what they mean. The only people that can get away with posting there # are ones that have 100s of track # with HP # from there dyno so you even know what you are looking at.
I will talk about the 3 major Dynos Mustang (MD), Dyno Dynamics(DD) and Mustang(DJ)
We own a Mustang so of course we are extremely biased towards Mustang, but I feel I have very good reasons.
Dyno Jet are a older tech style dyno and just have a heavy drum that you see how fast you can spin from point A to point B. Very simple.
Most of your Dyno Jet and Dyno Jets are connected to a Eddy Current (big electric motor) They put load on the car and use a strain gauge to measure hp. While this is fine for tuning it makes it horrible to know what the # mean because the calibration can be done different or Changed by the operator from dyno to dyno.
The Dyno Jet seem to have the most problem with operators playing with this calibration.
The Dyno Jet I have not heard as much about changing the HP but the Dyno Jet has different modes that give way different dyno # and you cant seem to tell which mode it is in by looking at the sheet. I know a Dyno Jet in normal mode will be about the same as a properly calibrated Dyno Jet which is about 15% lower then a DJ, but in there shoot out mode they seem to be about the same or higher then a Dyno Jet.
When my dyno 1st opened I had few local customers that were tuned on a Dyno Jet that were told they would make XX hp more on a Dyno Jet. They all made the same hp or XX less on our Mustang.
These days every one has a Dyno so swinging your hp # around is very common. While other will say that track # are the only prof. While that is kinda true so many cars that do make good hp cant run the same times as other either being, Clutch setup, weight, Safety rules, DRIVER or they just like a fast street car and don't care to race.
So having a Dyno that you can trust # is SO SO important.
We have tuned on 6 different Mustangs and there # are all the same.
Why People Choose the other dynos. Well quite a few years back Mustang did not have a Eddy Current option. The Eddy Current option is very nice and sometimes needed for a tuner to get a good tune or pin point trouble areas. Sine the Mustang worked off of a Eddy current it allowed for the steady state tuning ware the Mustang did not. Our Mustang does have the Eddy Current option so we can still have the simple style dyno for our HP # and still have load control for tuning. Also the Mustang with the Eddy current option is more then a Mustang.
This is my biased opinion that the Mustangs and Dyno Dynamics are great for tuning but in no way can you post your dyno # and know what they mean. The only people that can get away with posting there # are ones that have 100s of track # with HP # from there dyno so you even know what you are looking at.
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Dec 29, 2009, 07:36 AM
#9
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I agree that dynos are tools. And since we have to use them and treat them as tools, it is always preferred to have the best tool, and that would be a dyno dynamics, or a mustang.
If someone really spends time in order to tune a car and uses the dyno to load the car into different loads, fom partial throttles to wot, to cruising speeds, to transitions from vacuum to boost etc, a loading dyno can be very helpful...
Now the dyno numbers are in terms of comparison, the real "competitor" is myself and the modifications we do and of course the before and after... That's why I stay on the same dyno all these years, will the same variables. It is the only way to have direct comparison data... And of course how this data is translated to actual performance...
For example:
- at 300awhp @ 3500 lbs on the stock evo ix tranny the car traps 114.5mph
- at 370awhp @ 3400 lbs on a 3-4 gears from evo 8 traps 121mph
- at 460awhp @ 3370 lbs traps 130mph
- at around 500awhp @ 3370 lbs with bad synchros traps 132mph
now I know as soon as I see the dyno number how the car will perform.
If someone really spends time in order to tune a car and uses the dyno to load the car into different loads, fom partial throttles to wot, to cruising speeds, to transitions from vacuum to boost etc, a loading dyno can be very helpful...
Now the dyno numbers are in terms of comparison, the real "competitor" is myself and the modifications we do and of course the before and after... That's why I stay on the same dyno all these years, will the same variables. It is the only way to have direct comparison data... And of course how this data is translated to actual performance...
For example:
- at 300awhp @ 3500 lbs on the stock evo ix tranny the car traps 114.5mph
- at 370awhp @ 3400 lbs on a 3-4 gears from evo 8 traps 121mph
- at 460awhp @ 3370 lbs traps 130mph
- at around 500awhp @ 3370 lbs with bad synchros traps 132mph
now I know as soon as I see the dyno number how the car will perform.
Dec 29, 2009, 09:14 AM
#11
Registered User
good stuff, cleared up some issues. here in the caribbean uncorrected reads higher than SAE correction. one question:
i have seen most DJs have a correction factor of 1.01, normal right? however, i have seen some with higher correction factors....possible?
-Ravaal
i have seen most DJs have a correction factor of 1.01, normal right? however, i have seen some with higher correction factors....possible?
-Ravaal
Dec 29, 2009, 09:47 AM
#13
Weather correction is all relative to the form of correction being used:
http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno-tec...horsepower.htm
So SAE is designed to correct to a day that is 77*F and 0% humidity. Basically for you since this temp is probably a little more average than here in the NW the correction is really relative to the ambient humidity the day that you dyno.
I believe all the major "schools" of correction are listed in that link, including the ones we'd never ever use.
Aaron
Dec 29, 2009, 10:08 AM
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- Bryan
