JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

Based on what I am seeing the marks can be scuff from running at high rpm, damage from what has been covered already, or both.

Detonation can increase cylinder pressure to 2000psi on bad spikes. A 46psi spike on gasoline could do something like that especially with the timing numbers that are getting tossed around in this thread. Detonation on that level can rattle gaskets and stretch studs. The fact they are loose now doesnt mean they were originally. 80 ft lbs isnt even that "loose" since the spec is 85 and even when We crank them down we only go to 90-92 on 11mm studs.

Tuner and mishaps are to blame here. Dave (and us too) stand behind our products from "normal" problems and not abuse. Whether you like it or not thats what happened here, boost controller malfunction and failure to chop the pull (apparently...if I read it right).

Sucks, but welcome to modified cars.

Aaron

gkania

iTrader: (6)

What book is that you refer to? Based on a stock map, the timing at redline for 20psi or 200load is 18* at 7500rpms. I guess you have to call the mitsu engineers and complain about their ****load of timing on their stock map (in your opinion) because those are stock timing numbers. With a larger turbo with cooler, more efficient boost pressure it would be even easier on the motor at 20psi than the 18* on the smaller, less efficient stock turbo.

Stop spreading misinformation for the benefit of the forum.

localtoys73

iTrader: (24)

The spike did not occour in my posession so its my fault? I wasnt driving down the street and the car spiked this all happened during a tuning session. I do not tune cars or put them together.

localtoys73

iTrader: (24)

When I get a chance I will type out a time line of events so everyone can see what happened when. If you werent there please do not comment on things you think did or did not happen...
As far as the credit card issue that was the final straw for me and ttp that and I was tired of hearing him bad mouth everyone and his mother about this build because I didnt want his shop to build the 2.4.
There were numourous other issues before the cc.

tscompusa2

iTrader: (22)

gkania the reason the cars tuned that way from the factory is because its designed to taper boost off and to make up for the loss in power at higher rpm's for the boost droppage they add timing.. it also keeps egt nice and low.

Every cars different though once modified with high performance parts, and i agree you cant just say something is to much for a specific car if you didnt tune it yourself or test it to find the limits of it.. even then you have options to balance certain things to go different routes when extracting power. its the tuners job to find the right balance for that car and once found that's when serious power is extracted.

Honestly.. If i was tuning a car on ecu boost and the boost spiked high due to something I did id feel responsible for that damage. At the same time they can argue that you had it tuned prior by someone they don't trust and some of the damage could have occurred in his possession as well.. so you have to look at the situation in every angle possible..

You would be surprised what Buschur racing does for their customers.. they go above and beyond to stand behind their engines even if something occurs that's not their fault.. that's why im still running their engine.. I am extremely pleased with the services i received from Buschur racing and will continue to buy products from them when time comes I need a new BR part on my car.

I also had good experiences with AWD as well. I think you should expect to pay out of pocket for the damages, but they will not make you pay full prices from my experience.......... however....... you threatened with a lawyer and that can really **** people off quick and may change the entire circumstances of how initially they would of handled the situation.

I wasn't really gonna respond in here but figured i would just give my opinion on the situation.

JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

How is it Daves fault for damage using your argument? It becomes your responsibility because of where it was taken. You didnt get hijacked and forced to have the car tuned I wouldnt think, you chose to take it wherever you did. Accidents happen but I find it hard to link initial build to damage after a tuning mishap.

That was all I was trying to say. I'll go back to tuning and building my cars.

localtoys73

iTrader: (24)

That is not my argument however after taking the car apart to do the head gasket the tolerances of the motor have come into question. I dont build motors so i posed the question if 10,000 was to much for a piston to wall clearance? This is what I am being told is to much for the motor to last. This motor has 800 miles on it did the boost spike cause this piston to wall clearance? I am asking the question. Will the motor last with this clearance if I put it back together this way?

Prs asked me what type of pistons I was running I told them JE coated pistons this is what I was told and is on my reciept I have now come to find out the 2.4 does not come with JE pistons but Manley pistons.

localtoys73

iTrader: (24)

This is the main reason I went to Bushur in the 1st place was there rep I asked a few companies to build the motor but went with Buschur in the end.
As far as the lawyer goes Ttp says that AWD made the mistake Awd says ttp made the mistake in the past I have tried to talk to Buschur and he told me to talk to AWD since that is where I purchased the motor.
Do you understand we are going in circles? If everyone says it everyone else fault then someone else will have to decide in the end.

I cant stand the legal system but it does serve its purpose. I also do aggree I shouldnt get anything for free and dont mind paying my part however what is the purpose of taking our cars to well known shops if they do not stand behind there work? Or atleast answer the questions I have asked.

localtoys73

iTrader: (24)

Here is the time line so the facts are out there. Contacted AWD about a bushur 2.4 motor contacted TTp about doing the tear down and install of the motor. Motor was received from Buschur as promissed. Car has been at ttp shop since the start I asked if I could be around to watch the tear down and install of the new motor(this was done and I was not there until the end).
Did the break in as stated by AWD ...TTP does the 1st tune made decent power had a leaking wastegate due to incorrect spring(drive ability sucked car would no idle stalled at light would go rich and lean cruising around).
Ordered the new wastegate spring and made apointment with Diirk at awd Drove to AWd and installed the wastegate spring
handed the keys to diirk he spent many hours road tuning the car(car runs great by the way like a stock car) put car on dyno at awd and started to turn up the boost.
Car was making great power he was going up 4% each time hit 34lbs of boost and had a boost spike to 46lbs (this is when the head was lifted)
Diirk told me a way to see if the head gasket was blown was to start over at a lower boost and continue to go up to see if the car would spit coolant out of the overflow.

Car started down low again and went up to 34lbs and spit coolant. I told him to lower boost and I would have a new head gasket installed. I was then told ECU boost sucks on high boost cars(I have never heard this before) So I told diirk I would swap it out for a MBC and come back down to finish the tune.

localtoys73

iTrader: (24)

Took the car to prs they took it apart and called me over to look at the damage head was not new(ttp had told me the head was a new head not a refurb head) the head has some pitting and spots that need to machined out.
Then I was asked what pistons I had in the car ..I told them JE coated pistons since this is what I was told from the start and have on my reciept. They told me they were Manley pistons we also noticed the damage on the cylinder walls at this time.
Prs asked me if I wanted them to take it apart and check everything out(well ofcourse I did at this point)
after all the measurements I was told the piston to wall clearance was 10,000 and the car would not last if it was put back together this way.
Now I send PM to awd and ttp of findings this is where all the finger pointing begins and where we are now.

localtoys73

iTrader: (24)

Sorry for the horrible run on sentences Im pissed off right now and typing as quick as I can.
Anways thats the story. You can belive or stand by or say whatever you want about me and the mistakes I have made.
Maybe this entire thing is my fault.

I guess I should have built the damn thing by myself and learned how to tune it by myself who knows there might have been a different outcome.

localtoys73

iTrader: (24)

I will say this I am sorry for not waiting to get a responce back from David, he has been the most helpful so far, he atleast wants to look at the motor himself and then tell me what he thinks has caused this. No one else in the equation wants to even hear from me. So thanks for that Dave.
I do appreciate it.

Almost left it out ttp charged my credit card 2 weeks after the tune for fluids he forgot to bill me for during the build. Most of the time I do not have a problem with paying esp if I need to but atleast tell me you are going to charge my card instead of just running it through. I am glad i look at my CC statements geez.

wings1833

iTrader: (1)

Seems like, in the future, having one shop handle everything from beginning to end might be a little bit cleaner if possible. I realize this isn't easy with locations/time travel/etc. but it can at least provide an easier time line/chain of custody.

Just my .02.

AWD Motorsports

iTrader: (211)

NOBODY in the equation wants to hear from you?? If i am not mistaken you left a message on our voicemail and received a call back in under 5 minutes??? I havent gotten another PM or call since then..

TTP definitely doesnt want to help you.. they didnt want to help anyone thats why they are closed and moved to another state.. He was 1 of the worst vendors this site and state has ever seen..

You PM me and ill give you a list of screen names with your SAME EXACT ENGINE that was BUILT HERE and TUNED HERE you can use for reference.. I think it was stated pretty clearly when you have 4 different people involved in putting a car together you can only expect finger pointing.. When a Buschur Engine is installed at AWD and Tuned at AWD then both of us stand behind our work 100%.. There is not 1 single customer i can recall with a Buschur Engine we installed and we tuned that has the issues your car has and we didnt start assembling evos last night.. The map in your car was atrocious according to derek and if he saved it im going to send it to Dave to look at and analyze..

I wouldnt doubt Dave to be the MOST HELPFUL person for you at this point.. He stands behind his products if he needs to and always has.. Thats why we exclusively use Buschur engines for 5 years now..

Lastly I want to clarify since you seem to still be talking about not getting JE pistons.. It was an honest mistake on my part that i told you the pistons were JE.. Most of the motors we do are 2.0L which uses JE but the 2.4L uses Manley.. Neither are less or more $$$ the BR engines cost the same regardless of pistons.. So i dont want there to be a misunderstanding that i promised you 1 product and delivered another.. its not as if i promised Manley Turbo tuff and ordered a set of H beam JUNK to be put in your engine.. Dave will tell you himself the 2.4L is built 1 way and i even got you the long rod you asked for on short notice after you ordered dont forget.. Dave builds all engines himself, clearances them himself and only uses what he feels is best for each application. In your case it was Manley pistons for the 2.4L.. It has been fixed in our system to read properly Manley Pistons for the 2.1L and 2.4L larger bore engines.. Sorry for the wrong information..

Mike

bambooi

iTrader: (6)

Looks like Dirk blew your engine up. The car was running great until it hit the boost spike. There are ecu parameters that could have prevented this. This is why fuel cut x2 was put in v7. On previous version roms you just had to max out fuel cut after so much power, but V7 has fuel cut x2. If ecu boost "sucks" on high power cars, why did he do it? That makes 0 sense.