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BR 2.3 - FP Black DBB - 36psi - E85

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Old Aug 26, 2012, 09:26 AM
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Looks good Tom! I can't wait to see the track speeds.
Old Aug 26, 2012, 09:50 AM
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Like I said on FB, looking good Tom! Looking forward to track results! Good luck!
Old Aug 26, 2012, 10:06 AM
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Car looks great as always.

I am surprised to see the car making 600whp - figured at this point it would be over 650 without a fuss. Are you out of wg duty cycle at peak power or still have room to climb?

Timing at peak power?
Old Aug 26, 2012, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Collin@ToxicFab
Nice numbers buddy!

Collin
Thanks Collin! The manifold seems to be getting nicer as i heat cycle it lol. the Toxicfab emblem on it looks like a rainbow / chameleon color now.
The pedal stop worked perfect also for the full blown TB!

Originally Posted by GotWheelHop
Looks good, Tom. Might have to give the hybrid boost a try so I can limit my tq spike and keep building power up top. 138 or bust.
Thanks Eddie! I dont think its going to go 138 though.. however 4th does feel really strong.

Originally Posted by EvoIIIAj
Looking great Tom. I'm interested in doing SD also but not sure how hard it would be for me being my car doesn't come with a map sensor from factory.
Well I have another customer who wired in a map sensor to his car and his runs great, so i can give you his information on how he did his car.

Originally Posted by badev0
Very nice Tom. Car will definitely trap somewhere between 135-138.
I hope so Scott!

Originally Posted by prowakeskater
Perfect engine bay. Impressive gains!

Interested in the comparison of the s3's. Will the displacement help the spool lag? or will there even be a difference?
The S3's will make more top end no doubt. the question is how much?

Originally Posted by GotWheelHop
I have a similar build to Tom's and I noticed almost zero gain in spool up time when I installed my s3's from Comp 280's. Tom is gonna pick up a bunch out the top probably, and not have to run crazy boost to do it.
Ya Eddie, your car is the reason i got the s3's downstairs waiting to go in

Originally Posted by razorlab
I'd be curious to see a before/after on the same measurement tool. Can you do VD overlays of before/after?

This is not a challenge, I'm truly curious.
do you want to see the virtual dyno of the car at the time it made the dynojet pull? i do have all that information and can definitely share overlays for you. I would put the car back on that dynojet, but that dynojet is 3 hours away from me in philly area.. i could probably get it arranged though.

Originally Posted by el.guerrero
speed density 2d or 3d?
2d. i put every car on 2d.

Originally Posted by 94AWDcoupe
wow those are some massive torque losses.
4000 its down 80
4500 its down 130
even 5000 its 70
before it looked fun from 4500-7700
now its looks fun from 6000-8000
two different beasts for sure.
and no tellin which parts are helping or hurting with sooo many changes. so important to make one change at a time and assess.
there is no loss in spool, no loss in tq.. im not loading the car up like i did before. the car feels wicked downlow.. ill get a log of loading it up.. it definitely didnt lose power anywhere, im very confident in that. Its still making 450tq at 4500RPM like it was before.. honestly it might be making more.. it feels very strong and it did not delay spool at all. the bigger runner & plenum intake manifold woke the car up big time. it is WAY more responsive now.

Originally Posted by EvocentriK
When you can use a 3-port to tune boost for the entire rev range, why are you using an MBC as well? Your WGDC tables must look real weird.

Good to see youre happy with the new setup, be interesting to see what the S3's do.
WGDC @ about 70% right now. The mbc outspools a 3 port, so when you use a mbc with a 3 port, you get the best of both worlds. that and the ability to up boost at will in car or out of car without having to flash the vehicle.

Originally Posted by 94AWDcoupe
sure I saw that. there are a tonne of variables left out. but in short there are at least two parts added that are known torque killers. with only the before and after graphs to look at from here my observation remains. he did state he only cares about 1/4 mile performance so it doesnt matter

.Due to traffic, i could not load the car up downlow to show a better comparison under the curve, but that isnt even the area i care about anymore, but i know others do. let me just say i cant notice any loss of power downlow, if anything it feels more responsive. I had timing loaded in the car and had it aggressive, and it peaked around 570wtq.. but i took it back out. thats not what im after. what im after is 1/4 track powerband usage.
I honestly can not feel any loss of tq or power downlow. infact the car is spinning from 45-50mph roll in 2nd before it was not doing that at lower boost levels. plus its even hotter out now then it was before i ran on that dynojet.

I will get you a hit at 2500 to show you power comparisons. I think it may surprise a few people that its not going to alter the spool or tq curve. it is because its a 2.3 and the stock intake manifold is restrictive for them.

Originally Posted by evilempire76
Looks good Tom! I can't wait to see the track speeds.
Thanks same here! I need to break the trans in more before i run it down the track though. I tried to go through gears quick and it felt alittle weird.. its still very notchy.

Originally Posted by B.J.@ToxicFab
Like I said on FB, looking good Tom! Looking forward to track results! Good luck!
Thanks BJ! Same here!

Originally Posted by Boltz.
Car looks great as always.

I am surprised to see the car making 600whp - figured at this point it would be over 650 without a fuss. Are you out of wg duty cycle at peak power or still have room to climb?

Timing at peak power?
When comparing my car to customers, my powers right where it should be.. so i dunno why its always a surprise its at the power its at. its running more timing then the stock block i did that made 627whp on a fp black (evo 9). (he was running more boost). 18*~

It still has room to climb. its at 70% right now. It can probably be forced to run 38ish and it should make more power, but i dont know how close that is to the turbo saying goodbye (in the aol voice) lol. gotta be careful with the 2.3L

Last edited by tscompusa; Aug 26, 2012 at 03:01 PM.
Old Aug 26, 2012, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tscompusa

When comparing my car to customers, my powers right where it should be.. so i dunno why its always a surprise its at the power its at. its running more timing then the stock block i did that made 627whp on a fp black (evo 9). (he was running more boost). 18*~

It still has room to climb. its at 70% right now. It can probably be forced to run 38ish and it should make more power, but i dont know how close that is to the turbo saying goodbye (in the aol voice) lol. gotta be careful with the 2.3L
Reliability is priceless, but on the internet, numbers rule!

If you were on a journal bearing turbo, I'd be spot on with you. Since you have the DBB turn them shlts up!
Old Aug 26, 2012, 12:48 PM
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Tom you need to add a 02 dump
For some more top end
I've got a toxi fab 02 dump you can try while my motor is being built
I recommend having it ported tho
Great numbers regardlesss
Lmk
Cheers
Old Aug 26, 2012, 04:57 PM
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why no hybrid boost on my car?

looks good tho.. should post pics of the whole car again.. i always forget what urs looks like
Old Aug 26, 2012, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Boltz.
Reliability is priceless, but on the internet, numbers rule!

If you were on a journal bearing turbo, I'd be spot on with you. Since you have the DBB turn them shlts up!
I dont know how much i can actually spin it to on a 2.3. 36psi at high rpm is getting near the danger zone. i might bump the duty cycle up another 7-10 just to see what happens though.

first i must break in the trans more. it was being extremely notchy. I put 40 miles on it just now with no boost.. (had to drive it in the rain just so i would stay out of it).. im really bad when it comes to self control with my car and WOT.

The trans is really starting to loosen up now tho and feel much better. still notchy, but not as bad now. I just hope i didnt hurt it by going straight out with no break in with 600whp. i did not launch the car though or shift super aggressive yet.

Originally Posted by Srt4...
Tom you need to add a 02 dump
For some more top end
I've got a toxi fab 02 dump you can try while my motor is being built
I recommend having it ported tho
Great numbers regardlesss
Lmk
Cheers
Hi Fred,

I would, but i hate removing the o2 housing.. its never easy on my car.

Originally Posted by jmcmill3
why no hybrid boost on my car?

looks good tho.. should post pics of the whole car again.. i always forget what urs looks like
We can if you want. you have a 3 port though, and a bigger turbo will make all its power uptop, so its not going to make a huge impact. but if you want to set that up let me know ill contact you on yahoo.
Old Aug 26, 2012, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tscompusa
We can if you want. you have a 3 port though, and a bigger turbo will make all its power uptop, so its not going to make a huge impact. but if you want to set that up let me know ill contact you on yahoo.
eh.. yeah ur right im good on that.. im still gonna have to worry about the trans and trnsfr case.. as long as i get the #'s
Old Aug 27, 2012, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by tscompusa
I dont know how much i can actually spin it to on a 2.3. 36psi at high rpm is getting near the danger zone. i might bump the duty cycle up another 7-10 just to see what happens though.
I bet you still have some solid headroom on the turbo unless you are leaving a lot of power on the table with timing advance.

You've done everything to help the motor breathe and on kill should be able to do ~700whp.
Old Aug 27, 2012, 08:08 AM
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nice job! the engine bay looks awsome! And power is sick! Congrats.
Old Aug 27, 2012, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tscompusa
there is no loss in spool, no loss in tq.. im not loading the car up like i did before. the car feels wicked downlow.. ill get a log of loading it up.. it definitely didnt lose power anywhere, im very confident in that. Its still making 450tq at 4500RPM like it was before.. honestly it might be making more.. it feels very strong and it did not delay spool at all. the bigger runner & plenum intake manifold woke the car up big time. it is WAY more responsive now.

I honestly can not feel any loss of tq or power downlow. infact the car is spinning from 45-50mph roll in 2nd before it was not doing that at lower boost levels. plus its even hotter out now then it was before i ran on that dynojet.

I will get you a hit at 2500 to show you power comparisons. I think it may surprise a few people that its not going to alter the spool or tq curve. it is because its a 2.3 and the stock intake manifold is restrictive for them.
I was starting to wonder about loss of spoolup myself but now that you clarified on loading the car, it makes sense. I would like to see the before and after comparison with loading at 2500 also. So a good 40whp gain from intake/SD/tubular manifold. Engine bay looks very nice BTW.
Old Aug 27, 2012, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jmcmill3
eh.. yeah ur right im good on that.. im still gonna have to worry about the trans and trnsfr case.. as long as i get the #'s
Ya 3 port will more then get the job done on your setup. your setup will make some big #'s once its back together.

Originally Posted by Boltz.
I bet you still have some solid headroom on the turbo unless you are leaving a lot of power on the table with timing advance.

You've done everything to help the motor breathe and on kill should be able to do ~700whp.
The only thing i have to do is GSC S3's. There is no more timing in the car from 6000rpm+. Downlow its alittle conservative though. There is definitely more power left with boost, but im not going to push the turbo any harder then what it is for now. im monitoring water pressure WOT and its getting pretty high.

Originally Posted by Mauricio Evo IV
nice job! the engine bay looks awsome! And power is sick! Congrats.
Thanks man. Just need it to perform well at the track then ill be happy and swap the cams out and go for my final goal of 140.

Originally Posted by wanguru
I was starting to wonder about loss of spoolup myself but now that you clarified on loading the car, it makes sense. I would like to see the before and after comparison with loading at 2500 also. So a good 40whp gain from intake/SD/tubular manifold. Engine bay looks very nice BTW.
there is no loss in spool. it would be the first thing id notice in the car flooring it. it is more responsive actually. im still trying to break the trans in.. its pretty notchy. at idle it doesn't even wanna go in gear sometimes.
Old Aug 27, 2012, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tscompusa
Yim still trying to break the trans in.. its pretty notchy. at idle it doesn't even wanna go in gear sometimes.
sounds like a dragging clutch. a newly rebuilt trans should not be hard to get in gear at idle.
Old Aug 27, 2012, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by griceiv
sounds like a dragging clutch. a newly rebuilt trans should not be hard to get in gear at idle.
I'll check the fork stop maybe its hitting the clutch fork

Last time i adjusted the master cylinder travel i did it per Jack transmissions guide where you adjust it until you cant push in the slave cylinder rod anymore, then adjust it back until you can push it in.. then that confirms you have max clutch pedal travel.

ive had it on jackstands before also and it is not dragging last i checked. i might need to top it off with more fluid though since a newly built trans will get alittle low after some mileage on it even if it overflows on the first time filling it up.

if you have any other recommendations that i do / check, let me know. thanks.

more info:

just idling in my driveway and trying to shift with the clutch in, 4th gear was hard as hell to go in.. it didnt wanna go in at all. the rest of the gears seemed ok though.
Driving the car 4th gear goes in fine though, and so do the rest of the gears. sometimes at a stop sign when i try to put it in 1st tho it is very rough / hard to go in..

with the car turned off it goes in every gear easy though.. before i had it rebuilt it never did this stuff before ever.

Last edited by tscompusa; Aug 27, 2012 at 05:33 PM.


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