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Old Sep 20, 2013 | 06:34 AM
  #16  
wkarl's Avatar
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Originally Posted by KingTal0n
Head studs provide a different clamping force than head bolts. They are also usually a different torque spec. In many engines, if you simply go from head bolts to studs, the cylinders will no longer be round. It's an especially well known issue with lightweight aluminum blocks like the sr20det (nissan 2.0L).

Mazworx even rents them. They are, in my opinion, the only company in the USA capable of properly building an SR20DET engine to date.

No one "should" install head studs without first bolting down a deck plate, using the same head studs that will be used on the engine during final assembly, using the same lubricant and torque specification as in final assembly, and boring the engine to ensure round cylinders. People still do it all the time, and get away with it; doesn't make it the "right way" though.
Yeah I understand the concept and I can see how with an aluminum block this would be a much bigger deal. It did slip my mind yesterday that the stock motor uses head bolts not head studs, which are torque to yield and would thus provide less clamping force and less potential cylinder deformation.

My question is though, on this motor with a heavy solid cast iron block does it flex enough with just standard ARP headstuds (or any) to require a torque plate hone? I know that people who are doing really serious builds will torque plate hone their block for peace of mind. But I also have seen several people claim they have made reliable, lasting power, without one. I would tend to agree with you that doing it is technically the correct way to go about things, that is if the block is deforming enough to warrant it. One would need to actually take measurements on the top, middle, and bottom of the cylinders with and without a torque plate installed on something like three to five different blocks to see for sure whether the cylinders are deforming. Again, not completely disagreeing with you, but I believe in actually knowing whats happening before making blanket statements that "every" engine requires "this" or "that."

I do apologize to the OP as this discussion has gone way off topic. Good numbers though.
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Old Sep 20, 2013 | 07:04 AM
  #17  
ReignMan24's Avatar
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Originally Posted by wkarl
Yeah I understand the concept and I can see how with an aluminum block this would be a much bigger deal. It did slip my mind yesterday that the stock motor uses head bolts not head studs, which are torque to yield and would thus provide less clamping force and less potential cylinder deformation.

My question is though, on this motor with a heavy solid cast iron block does it flex enough with just standard ARP headstuds (or any) to require a torque plate hone? I know that people who are doing really serious builds will torque plate hone their block for peace of mind. But I also have seen several people claim they have made reliable, lasting power, without one. I would tend to agree with you that doing it is technically the correct way to go about things, that is if the block is deforming enough to warrant it. One would need to actually take measurements on the top, middle, and bottom of the cylinders with and without a torque plate installed on something like three to five different blocks to see for sure whether the cylinders are deforming. Again, not completely disagreeing with you, but I believe in actually knowing whats happening before making blanket statements that "every" engine requires "this" or "that."

I do apologize to the OP as this discussion has gone way off topic. Good numbers though.
The answer is, the 4G63 is a gods motor...end of story... But on a serious note, haven't seen a response from the OP in a few days and I'm really interested to see the dyno graph itself and know who the tuner is...
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Old Sep 20, 2013 | 05:49 PM
  #18  
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From: Florida
Originally Posted by wkarl

My question is though, on this motor with a heavy solid cast iron block does it flex enough with just standard ARP headstuds (or any) to require a torque plate hone? I know that people who are doing really serious builds will torque plate hone their block for peace of mind. But I also have seen several people claim they have made reliable, lasting power, without one. I would tend to agree with you that doing it is technically the correct way to go about things, that is if the block is deforming enough to warrant it. One would need to actually take measurements on the top, middle, and bottom of the cylinders with and without a torque plate installed on something like three to five different blocks to see for sure whether the cylinders are deforming. Again, not completely disagreeing with you, but I believe in actually knowing whats happening before making blanket statements that "every" engine requires "this" or "that."
Well said! Its true, we cannot blanket statement for the word "need". But that same is true for many arguments, such as synthetic oil, or condoms. peace of mind? I'd like it, sure. But there is still no guarantee. On the other hand, it can't hurt. (well, anything except your wallet). I was mainly curious if yall are slapping in studs without that measurement you spoke of. Guess i got my answer

"Somewhere in the world, somebody is filling a catch can because race car"
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Old Sep 21, 2013 | 12:02 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by KingTal0n
Head studs provide a different clamping force than head bolts. They are also usually a different torque spec. In many engines, if you simply go from head bolts to studs, the cylinders will no longer be round. It's an especially well known issue with lightweight aluminum blocks like the sr20det (nissan 2.0L).
Because the 4G63 is an Iron block, its not as prone to cylinder distortion as an aluminum block.
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Old Sep 22, 2013 | 10:14 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Boosted Tuning
Because the 4G63 is an Iron block, its not as prone to cylinder distortion as an aluminum block.
If you bore a 1-piece chevrolet V8 350CID from 1992 without using a deck plate going to head studs, most of the time you wind up with egg shaped cylinders. Its practically a necessity for those engines. Because the bore is so large you can more easily detect a small incremental change in the roundness of the cylinder.
And they are iron
Aluminum blocks in the scope of this discussion use steel sleeves anyways. The sleeve is what we are worried about. Like was mentioned already, someone needs to actually verify with the right tool. Surprised nobody ever tried and tested considering how much R&D has been done with this engine. I bet mitsubishi knew in advance people would do this... given the OEM performance nature of the vehicle. I bet its fine. i was just curious.

Last edited by KingTal0n; Sep 22, 2013 at 10:24 AM.
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Old Sep 22, 2013 | 11:55 AM
  #21  
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From: Chico, CA (Nor-Cal)
Originally Posted by KingTal0n
If you bore a 1-piece chevrolet V8 350CID from 1992 without using a deck plate going to head studs, most of the time you wind up with egg shaped cylinders. Its practically a necessity for those engines. Because the bore is so large you can more easily detect a small incremental change in the roundness of the cylinder.
And they are iron
Aluminum blocks in the scope of this discussion use steel sleeves anyways. The sleeve is what we are worried about. Like was mentioned already, someone needs to actually verify with the right tool. Surprised nobody ever tried and tested considering how much R&D has been done with this engine. I bet mitsubishi knew in advance people would do this... given the OEM performance nature of the vehicle. I bet its fine. i was just curious.
Yes, when boring a block, weather iron or aluminum, the proper way is with a torque plate. But when just installing head studs into an iron block, theres no need to use a torque plate.
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Old Oct 2, 2013 | 07:45 AM
  #22  
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how is the tranny holdingg up?
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