https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-bbk-full.html

Heres another one I remember, MrFreds. Aaron does start pulls much earlier and consistently which is nice to compare apples/apples on spool, but starting later would of course have some effect but here we see the dynojet hitting 300ftlbs at 3500 also.

 

Their pulls are started early and that dynojet is a loaded one, so it loads up the car and makes it spool faster.

How bout someone comment on the CBRD tuned BBK car that doesnt hit 24psi until 4300RPM, if they're gonna try to say this one spools slow, yet hits boost 300RPMs sooner.

 

Aaron does not apply additional loading for this dyno runs. My BBK did exactly same on the street as it does on ER's dyno which kinda makes sense because its an ~3200 lb car, and the rollers provide 3000 lbs of inertia.

I'm sure that there are some BBK-Full setups that hit boost threshold later due to parts selection and other factors such as WGA preload. The part that everyone is challenging is the idea that an FP Black has nearly the same boost threshold as a BBK Full. It makes no sense. The Black is a much bigger turbo, and its going to take a higher airflow rate to get it into its efficiency range. My BBK-3B which is much closer in size to the BBK-Full hits about 100-200 rpm later, so how can a Black which has bigger compressor and turbine wheels and has an anti-surge cover that also slightly delays boost threshold, only be 100-200 rpm away from a BBK-Full?

 

Im looking at the maps you reference and seeing the peak boost rpm being far more of a boost controller/wga delay. Taking the boost control out of the picture and comparing where things hit 20psi, a good point where all setup are fully spooling, the 2 dyno's you posted are both around 3500 and yours is 3800. At least as far as I can tell..

 

Well then, everyone is challenging something I never said.

I never said they are they same. If you read what I said, I said that:

"More so, this post is to show that lag is over rated. Even between the green and the black, I usually only see a 200-400rpm difference in spool, which in my opinion is nothing, for the top end gained. Thats the point of these charts."

Also, for the 5th time, your car was on E85 which spools faster then 91oct, so its not a good comparison.

 

I not misleading anyone. Im sharing data. Something I rarely see you do.

So instead of calling stuff dumb, how bout being positive and post some data too. Or just not come into this thread.

 

The BBK car had MBC, so no boost controller delay.

The BLACK car is on ECU boost.

I also always measure spool by where the car hits 20psi at.

And yep, mine spools about 300RPM slower. Never said it was the same.

 

the jist of your first post is that the black spools barely any slower than a BBK. and then there are like five different people in this thread commenting because they know for a fact there is a very substantial difference between how these two turbos spool. calling this thread dumb is being positive if you ask me. hopefully my comments will be digested by innocent readers who dont have the luxury of being able to swap turbos on their car to see what works and what doesnt. the bottom line is these two turbos are vastly different is terms of spool and comparisons of such should be left to turbo only swaps on the same car same day.

 

haha, either way both turbos look great! i dont care what people say, these 2 turbos have been proven to be great turbos.

 

Still no actual data to post??

The jist of my first post is not "that the black spools barely any slower than a BBK" and never was. Ive even edited my first post a lil, so this is not perceived. Like I've said a couple times now, the jist of my first post is:


"More so, this post is to show that lag is over rated. Even between the green (or BBK) and the black, I usually only see a 200-400rpm difference in spool, which in my opinion is nothing, for the top end gained. Thats the point of these charts."


All Im doing is showing data. You on the other hand are just mudding up my thread.

I've tuned many stock frame turbos, and IMO, from the smaller ones to the big ones, there not as much lag as people try to make it seems like there is. Thats the point of this thread.

BTW, this car has already had a RED on it before and will again. Or he may get a BLACK. If he does, Ill be sure to post the data.

Also, Ive tuned BBKs and BLACKs many times and have never seen your supposed 600RPM difference. NEVER. I usually see only a 200-400RPM different in those turbos.

Last, I'd like to hear your opinion on the CBRD BBK car that was also posted that didnt hit 24psi until 4300RPM? If we add your supposed "600RPM rule" to that, that would mean a BLACK doesn't hit 24psi till 4900RPM. lol. Theres a million charts to prove that idea wrong.

 

1- I dont look at where 20psi is created. I like "dallasJ" look at where torque is created per rpm. the graphs he posted of BBK is hitting 300tq 700 rpm faster than your black posted. tq at wheel is far more valuable info then psi per rpm.

2- you are seeing 300rpm difference is the cars posted. there is another 300rpm in the manifold (50) 20 degrees (100-200) and cams (easily 200)

3- I always look for the best results when comparing results. not for a car that may be less than ideal. and you should never mix dyno types when making comparisons. mustangs and dynojets look completely different in the first part of tq curve of exact same car.

4- call fp and tell them you have a green and want to upgrade to a red. ask them what can one expect for spool difference. they will tell you to expect the red to spool 500rpm slower. they know better than to tell people "spool is over rated" "they spool nearly the same" " you can hardly feel any difference" I switched from a green to a red a few months back. I noticed hardly any spool difference after FP told me to expect 500 rpm difference. I didnt post anything because during the red swap, the crank got 4 lbs lighter, the balance shafts were lightened 1.5 lbs. all the pulleys were lightened 7.5lbs. I switched to from fp2 to fp3 cams, the car was lightened 100lbs. and the compressor cover on the red was non ported, green was ported. I guess I could ignore all those changes and tell people the red spools just as fast as the green.

 

You still havent posted one piece of data. Mostly cause you have none.

Im glad you've switched turbos on your car and have that experience. I, on the other hand, have tuned many stock frame turbos and have NEVER EVER, seen a 600RPM difference between a BLACK and BBK.

So if you gonna just argue with me and not even post any actually data, Please get out of my thread. Thanks.

 

Waiting for 94awdcoupe to post data..........

 

^^

 

What I don't get is Boosted Tuning was just posting up some data and now he is branded the candyman. He listed the specs for each car, boost plot, afr plot, air temp, damn what else do you guys want.

I am sure he was not trying to mislead anyone, just sharing info.

Anyhow Boosted thanks for posting all the info you have. Keep it up and don't let these guys get you down.