Not really pertinent to what you're trying to accomplish, or maybe it is... anyway, what about running 2 woofers, one under each of the front seats? You'd have to move your amps, but those don't take up too much room in the trunk.

Idea comes from my situation, if I could find 2 smaller woofers/subs that were shallow enough to run under the front seats, but would run good off of 250w, I could get rid of my W3, and go with something slightly stealthier.

 

2 woofers would give ~3dB more at lower distortion. I don't want the amp in the trunk and 1 is enough for what I'm after, but there are good reasons to go for a pair.

250w is plenty of power for a pair of relatively sensitive small drivers. Even though the (Earthquake) woofer provides a good foundation for the music, it won't beat your *** like a pinata. Similarly, it won't cause the panels in the car to flex and test its structural integrity. Unfortunately, everything is a compromise.

 

b-b-b-b-bump old thread! I was linked here by you in one of the subwoofer "argument" threads from 2011 while I was researching powered subs.

Thanks for the info on your setup. I'm very interested in something similar.

I know that you "get what you pay for", but I have some questions about your choice of amp. I can live with the $120 price of the woofer, but seeing as how you aren't getting the lowest frequencies with the small box, would a less expensive amp not suffice?

A quick search of 4ch amps at Amazon link to search, shows tons at less than $100, and several less than $50, some sale deals that are ~$275 msrp going for $100-$120. Would any of these do the job reliably? What drove your choice of amp in this case?

Edit: Also, there seem to be quite a few shallow subs on Amazon at a lower price-point. If you had to choose amp/sub again what would you go with? I'm running a Kenwood KDC-X994 through the stock IX MR system at the moment.

Thanks again for the details in your write-up.

--J.

 

the problem with cheap amps are that they most likely will not put out the rated power. Also there is quality issues with some.

yo u can buy decent amps for cheap if you look at car audio sites. heck I have 5 different amps sitting in my garage ROFL.

 

haha... Yeah, I wanted a "system" since back in the 90's, and I have followed car audio mags and such, but I'm not even an amateur (just installed my first head unit successfully, only other one I tried to install was an audiovox in high school, blew something up in it during the install), much less an expert, or even a well researched consumer. However, I have seen several discussions regarding rated vs. actual and such.

What I'm more concerned about is onboard crossovers, gain controls, etc. that make the amp used in this install better for an Evo than the amps on sale. Also inputs and such that make it compatible with my KDC-x994 as well as the stock speaker compatibility.

As far as cheap goes, I'm looking at the brands that are "good" (and some that I once associated with merely "reputable") like:

Infinity Reference 475a High Peformance 4-Channel Full-Range Amplifier (Silver/Black)
Buy new: $279.95 Amazon Price: $158.91

Pyle PLA4478 4 Ch 4000 Watts Bridgeable Mosfet Amplifier
Buy new: $297.99 Amazon Price $93.79 I have to at Pyle Driver nostalgia!

Kenwood KAC-5204 350 Watt Max Power Stereo Amplifier with Variable LPF
Buy new: $150.00 Amazon Price $69.98

Kenwood Kac-8405 600-Watt 4/3/2-Channel Amplifier with Variable LPF/HPF
Buy new: $270.00 Amazon Price $131.92

JBL LC-A504 Loud and Clear Series 4-Channel Automotive Power Amplifier
Buy new: $59.00

Etc.

My Kenwood is my second aftermarket radio (first was a pioneer supertunerIII that was stolen out of my truck), and this will be my first ever amp and first-ever non-factory woofer.

I love hearing MB Quarts mids/tweets, JL Audio subs in bandpass enclosures and all that, but I'm trying to get decent sound for a steal of a deal and I'm loving the underseat install and lightweight approach.

 

Ferno, I apologize for not replying sooner. Frankly, I've been so busy that I haven't spent a lot of time on the boards.

Let me pay you the compliment of being brutally honest; the amplifiers you're looking at are not very good. If I understand correctly, you'd like an amplifier to compliment your deck - a JVC KDC-x994 - and you'd like to use the stock speakers. Is that right?

The only crossover you need with the stock speakers is a HP, and I'd suggest using the one in the deck.

What is your budget and where would you like to mount/install the amp? Let's see if we can do better for you.

 

The KDC-X994 is actually a Kenwood, but yes, I would like it to compliment the deck with the factory speakers in the doors.

Budget is I'm trying to get the most amp+speaker for the money. For reference, in my home 5.1 I'm running Pioneer S-31B-LR satellites and they absolutely destroy any HTIB I've ever had, for less money than HTIBs. I'm loving the system for the money, and don't care that I don't have Paradigm or Energy at the price I paid, which IIRC was $99/pair on sale, now $185/pair at Amazon.

The "deal-finder" in me thinks that I can find $300-$350 worth of stuff on super-sale that performs as well as $900 worth of the local shop's year-old fare. Budget is also wife dependent. So I'd say anything much above $400 is going to make waves, and cause me to sell random parts from my garage to pre-load my paypal so as not to attract the attention of the authority.

I'd prefer the amp to not interfere with cargo space or cause me too much grief when installing. I don't mind pulling the front seats, but would like to avoid pulling the front seats, rear seats, trunk, center console, glovebox, dash, engine, etc.

 

Sorry, not sure why I wrote JVC. Heh, I even looked up the deck before I replied to your last post to make sure we were on the same page.

A $400 budget for an amp is quite a bit in the car stereo world. There's no need to go above that, especially in this car. Here is a thread with a number of quality amplifiers that either fit in the glovebox or under one of the front seats. Any of them would be great in your application. Are you planning on using both the front speakers and the rears? I think I talked a bit about the difference earlier in the thread (it's been a while). In terms of deals, one's best bet is to buy used, refurb, discontinued, etc. In car audio there's three kinds of gear: utter garbage like Boss, as an example, consumer-grade mid-line equipment that's either chosen from a catalog in Korean or a Chinese factory showroom or designed/built as a marketing endeavor, and then there's the good stuff. 95% of the equipment falls into the first 2 categories.

You'll have to pull the back part of the center console to remove either of the seats. It's really not a bug deal - 2 screws and 2 clips.

 

Sorry I meant that budget as INCLUDING my sub.

I will check out that thread and see what I can do to fit the amp and the sub in. Would you chose the same sub again or something else since it is not going to reproduce those lows in an audible manner in the Evo?

I figured you had looked up the deck, thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone was reading and following along.

 

Gotcha.

I'd definitely choose the same sub again. It does what it's supposed to without calling attention to itself. That's as much as one can expect, given the scope of the project. This sub, or more accurately a woofer, provides a tuneful foundation for the music, if you will, but doesn't move a whole lot of air. So, as long as you're aware of its limitations, I can recommend it. OTOH, if you're after more traditional (auto) subwoofer performance, something that hits you in the chest in a manner you can feel, there are better options albeit with their own drawbacks. Depends on what you're after.

You deck has a LP filter on its sub out. What are the available frequencies?

 

Not sure. Do I have to go into the sub menu to get the low pass frequencies?

I'm really looking for something that will produce decent bass. I feel like I have highs and mids for days in my MR with the Kenwood, but nothing down low.

I originally found this thread from another thread while searching for "powered subwoofer". In truth, I had something like a bazooka with a vampire clip in mind as I didn't want the huge size or weight of a bandpass box in my trunk. Your underseat solution looks great so here we are.

Unfortunately I am the ultimate newbie at buying and installing car audio. I stated in my Kenwood install thread that I had attempted one head unit install in my life prior to the x994, and I shorted that one during the install.

Just from briefly looking at the thread you mentioned, I see the JL 300/4 is ~$330 online (worried about refurbs or b-stock at that price though). IIRC the woofer you had I found for ~$120, which brings my budget sans box and cables to $450. I have no idea how much a box and cables is going to cost me, but I don't want it to turn my wife into Beatrix Kiddo once the prices are all totaled.

Edit: Just tooled around random car audio forums looking for budget 4ch amps, and came across the MB Quart ONX4125 for $160-ish. I've heard and liked MB Quart stuff in the past, but no amps. And I also want to re-iterate that I don't know jack about car audio, which this post probably proves. It's also 20"x9" dimensionally and may have no hope in hell of fitting under the seat.

 

You probably read the third post in this thread where I discussed the sonic and physical limitations posed by the car, itself. With that in mind, we have two choices: work with the car or overpower the car. Working with the car won't yield the kind of bass you seem to be looking for. OTOH, we can certainly overpower the car. The sub/enclosure doesn't have to weight more than ~40lbs, but it will test the structural integrity of the chassis each and every time you bump down the street. So, in essence, you need to make a choice as to what it is that you're willing to live with.

Same goes for the gear. If you want quality equipment, you either pay more than your budget allows or you buy used/refurb/etc. FWIW, in audio, refurbs tend to be very reliable. If you're not comfortable with that, something has to give. In terms of pricing, I sold an Arc Audio amp originally used in this install to a forum member for less than $200. It was a fair price for an outstanding High-End amplifier. It can be purchased as a BNIB discontinued item for $350, or one could have paid ~$600 a few years ago in a brick and mortar store. The JL you mentioned is a fine consumer-grade amplifier, arguably one of the best.

Edit: MBQ now is not the MBQ we knew 10-15 years ago. The amp you link'd is an example of a showroom-picked amplifier. Meaning, a rep from a given manufacturer looks at a catalog, picks the boards per their specs, and orders a custom cosmetic package which he hopes will differentiate this piece from the dozens of others almost exactly like it sold under other names. This is the low-end of the consumer sector, where JL is the upper end. This being said, there's nothing wretched about this amplifier. It's not garbage.

 

I read every post in this thread, including the third I read so much that I confuse myself at times, but I do recall the part about working with the car or overpowering it.

I think I just want to work with it. It's pretty rowdy already with the suspension issues, so I'd rather not fight it anymore.

I edited my post while you were working on the response, so here is the edit, and of course I'd like your input:
Edit: Just tooled around random car audio forums looking for budget 4ch amps, and came across the MB Quart ONX4125 for $160-ish. I've heard and liked MB Quart stuff in the past, but no amps. And I also want to re-iterate that I don't know jack about car audio, which this post probably proves. It's also 20"x9" dimensionally and may have no hope in hell of fitting under the seat.

My thinking is to do the best that I can under the seats and get the most Evo-audible product for the least amount of money. I get that something has to give, but I hoped that giving up the "sub" frequencies would translate into lower price points. If I'm correct, we are talking about going to door speaker + sub under the seat system and eliminating the rears. I already have the door speakers and will never have pounding bass from a shallow-mount mounted that, well, shallow.

Refurb/used is completely ok with me as long as the prices are in-line with that fact and the unit works. $350 for a high-quality amp sounds good to me, so maybe I need to figure $350 for an amp and move on to the woofer? What discontinued/old model/refurb amps should I start looking at? Got an Arc model number or is it the same model as the one you used in your original post?

 

I commented on the MBQ amp in the previous post. A 20x9 won't fit under the seat.

Frequency response is the least of it. We're playing music. What we're looking for in a sub (or a woofer) is definition, as in the beginning and the end of every note being clearly articulated, as a basic example, and of course a lack of distortion.

1. What exactly do you mean by pounding bass? I want to make sure we're on the same page. Have you ever been in a car where the bass was strong enough to move your internal organs and bring about a sense of nausea? This woofer won't do that. Have you been in a car where the bass physically hit you in the chest with very noticeable force? This woofer won't do that, either. Have you been in a car where the low frequencies were clearly defined, where they could be felt to some extent, but none of the above took place? That's what this woofer does.

2. The fact that it's shallow isn't terribly relevant. It's a small driver in a small enclosure capable of only so much within its limits.

3. In terms of eliminating the rears, it's a personal choice. Some folks would rather have a louder system than being concerned (solely) with sound quality.

This is the Arc amp:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ARC-AUDIO-XXK-40...item1c18d19947

 

Figured! Thanks for clarifying.

mmmm... ok! I get what you're saying. However, if the beginning and end of a note is out of the range of what can be heard in the Evo while driving, that frequency should not be weighed as heavily in importance when trying to reproduce sound, correct?

Yes. I know.
Yes. I know.
Not that I know of, but good to know. The closest I have likely come to this has been 4 JL 10's in the back of a 5.0 with flowmasters/headers in ~1992 in Gainesville, Ga... but come to think of it, it was probably chest-pounding.

Gotcha. That is the point I was trying to make. Why spend the extra money on something that can't hit the limitation of the enclosure if something less expensive will fit and work? Not trying to be a smartass with any of this, I'm thinking in terms of IT or exhaust bottlenecks, i.e. the woofer only being as good as it's weakest link, the small enclosure.

I don't want a terribly in depth explanation, because really, I'll accept "because the more expensive woofer will perform better in even the smallest of boxes", coming from you or anyone else that knows infinitely more about car audio than I do. I'm just trying to save money and not be the guy that buys a gigabit router for a 5mb/s connection.

I'm about to show my ignorance, but I believe in being honest so here goes:

Do you mean that 4 speakers would be louder and less quality than 2 because there are four speakers producing sound? or Do you mean that 2 speakers will be louder and less quality than 4 because you'll have more watts per speaker?

I believe the latter is correct, but I'm confused because you strike me as a sound quality guy, and if I understand correctly you are running two door speakers and a subwoofer.

BNIB, "quality" amp for $350? Sounds too good to be true?

Do you have any idea how much the box build and cables are going to cost, ballparkish? It's not a dealbreaker, I'm just trying to figure out what I'll need and how much it will run me. Also, I'm so noob running a power cable to my battery, firewall, etc, is it a big deal? Is it RCA's from the back of my Kenwood to the amp, then terminals and wire extensions up to the harness pigtail? I'm noob in case you forgot!