View Poll Results: What do you think on this topic?
Hell yeah! The EVO needs a new powerplant!
60
10.87%
I guess they should change it...
37
6.70%
Don\'t know
34
6.16%
Nah, why should they change it?
105
19.02%
Hell no! This is the best engine to use in the EVO!
316
57.25%
Voters: 552. You may not vote on this poll
4G63... outdated and archaic?
Originally posted by MrBonus
Agreed.
It's a four banger that can make alot of power on the stock block; what more can you ask for?
Agreed.
It's a four banger that can make alot of power on the stock block; what more can you ask for?
My '94 S4's motor is one of the smoothest I've ever driven and I think it's probably the best motor Audi's put out, period.
Too bad they dropped out of the rally game after they pretty much won it all, or I think they might still be on top.
Don't get me started on where Audi is today, making understeering, numb, huge sedans with little to no road feel. The UrQuattro, on the other hand, is an amazing machine and it's a shame Audi didn't continue its design...I see a lot of it in the E30 M3, the Evo, the STi. Too bad Audi found out where the money is.
I pick up my Evo next week and I'm psyched, it looks like it's going to be like an UrQ on steroids.
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: King of Prussia, PA
Originally posted by BlackLoTuS
True, true. The Wankel rotary is an awesome design and unlike a piston engine, you don't have to convert that violent, back and forth motion to a circular motion. The new mazda renesis motor looks promising as well. Too bad the Apex seals usually don't last much more than 80k.
True, true. The Wankel rotary is an awesome design and unlike a piston engine, you don't have to convert that violent, back and forth motion to a circular motion. The new mazda renesis motor looks promising as well. Too bad the Apex seals usually don't last much more than 80k.
Seriously, though I have a 2G DSM with 155,000 on the clock and it's been like a timex. I couldn't imagine what you guys got with the Evo. I'm looking forward to getting one next year.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Fallston, MD
Originally posted by BlackLoTuS
IMHO the C5's and Z-06's are the fastest unmodified autox cars right now, they are awesome! No, I agree that the big torque is great fun and very easy to drive. What I was saying in regard to trigeek37's comment about how well the chevy's are doing with old 2-valve pushrod technology but the only reason they are doing so is because of their large displacement. What I was tring to say is that having pushrods is not an advantage, having displacement is. If you had a 5.7 L DOHC with VTEC/VTTi/Mivec or whatever, designed properly you could have chassis twisting torque AND lots of top end power.
IMHO the C5's and Z-06's are the fastest unmodified autox cars right now, they are awesome! No, I agree that the big torque is great fun and very easy to drive. What I was saying in regard to trigeek37's comment about how well the chevy's are doing with old 2-valve pushrod technology but the only reason they are doing so is because of their large displacement. What I was tring to say is that having pushrods is not an advantage, having displacement is. If you had a 5.7 L DOHC with VTEC/VTTi/Mivec or whatever, designed properly you could have chassis twisting torque AND lots of top end power.
Back on topic, no the EVO doesn't need a new engine, I think this whole thread is retarded. The reason Mitsu isn't doing well is the drivers suck. Look at what David Higgins is doing with the EVO now. Finally, someone that can drive.
Last edited by rarson; Sep 24, 2003 at 02:15 PM.
Evolved Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
From: Nothern CA
This engine is as fine as wine. In line fours have been around since the days of Henry Ford and old man Daimler. A steel crank and shot peened rods with a main between each cylinder means strength and plenty of it. This block can really take boost and still spin up 8k.
The cylinder heads were just reworked for the 8 and flow 20% more volume than the previous design. Mitsu has not been sitting on its hands here. It is no trick to change cams and the rolling assy. if you want more than what comes out of the box.
With the number of these motors out the after market will remain strong for tunners. Not to mention how much fun it is do thrash cars with engines two or more times your size. Anyone see another stock 2000cc car that will take an Evo? I'll take a new motor if they build one that is better but I do not see any urgent reason for Mitsu to do so.
The cylinder heads were just reworked for the 8 and flow 20% more volume than the previous design. Mitsu has not been sitting on its hands here. It is no trick to change cams and the rolling assy. if you want more than what comes out of the box.
With the number of these motors out the after market will remain strong for tunners. Not to mention how much fun it is do thrash cars with engines two or more times your size. Anyone see another stock 2000cc car that will take an Evo? I'll take a new motor if they build one that is better but I do not see any urgent reason for Mitsu to do so.
Evolving Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: Tempe, AZ
True Dat
Originally posted by HobieKopek
Just for the record direct gasoline injection isn't exclusive Mitsubishi technology. I believe a few German auto makers are also playing with it, but Mitsubishi seems to be applying it the most so far as I've noticed. I feel like I should be doing homework on this stuff instead of my college classes. It's a lot more rewarding.
Just for the record direct gasoline injection isn't exclusive Mitsubishi technology. I believe a few German auto makers are also playing with it, but Mitsubishi seems to be applying it the most so far as I've noticed. I feel like I should be doing homework on this stuff instead of my college classes. It's a lot more rewarding.
that have put money into this technology put it to use in the state. i read this a few months ago in a car and driver magazine
awld?
Hello All,
This has been one of the most imformative posts yet concerning the legacy of the 4G63.
Just one comment.
The 4G63 has been an 'evo'lutionary design from the start.
Many companies have done evolutionary designs on motors. One in paticular is Ducati, another is Triumph on their Triple Cyl. motor, and of course the Chevy 350.
Yeah...the 4G63 might be the same 'basic' design, but aren't all of the recripocating piston motors really the same 'basic' design from 100 years ago? Honda may be using an 'Al' block instead of a steel block, but if I were really wanting to trust the bottom end in my superboosted motor, the steel 4G63 block is where I'm at.
The 4G63 head design (at least for the Evo VIII) is a work of art! 8.8:1 compression on 91 octane and almost 19psi boost, that, on a STOCK setup! WOW! WOW! WOW! The head design alone is worth merit for this last rev. of the 4G63, and...I can't wait for HKS to hopefully bring a VVT Head to the US. Just think...better gas milage, more low-end torque, and killer upper end. Ok...rambling on...
The only real production 'revolutionary' design that's been worth anything, I think would be the Mazda rotary, and even its 40+ years old.
So...the 4G63 will keep plugging along, and for what its worth, I personally can keep playing with it for a long, long, long time. Heck...even just a cam swap is a super cinch! Try that on a Subie motor!
Cheers,
jcnel.
This has been one of the most imformative posts yet concerning the legacy of the 4G63.
Just one comment.
The 4G63 has been an 'evo'lutionary design from the start.
Many companies have done evolutionary designs on motors. One in paticular is Ducati, another is Triumph on their Triple Cyl. motor, and of course the Chevy 350.
Yeah...the 4G63 might be the same 'basic' design, but aren't all of the recripocating piston motors really the same 'basic' design from 100 years ago? Honda may be using an 'Al' block instead of a steel block, but if I were really wanting to trust the bottom end in my superboosted motor, the steel 4G63 block is where I'm at.
The 4G63 head design (at least for the Evo VIII) is a work of art! 8.8:1 compression on 91 octane and almost 19psi boost, that, on a STOCK setup! WOW! WOW! WOW! The head design alone is worth merit for this last rev. of the 4G63, and...I can't wait for HKS to hopefully bring a VVT Head to the US. Just think...better gas milage, more low-end torque, and killer upper end. Ok...rambling on...
The only real production 'revolutionary' design that's been worth anything, I think would be the Mazda rotary, and even its 40+ years old.
So...the 4G63 will keep plugging along, and for what its worth, I personally can keep playing with it for a long, long, long time. Heck...even just a cam swap is a super cinch! Try that on a Subie motor!
Cheers,
jcnel.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Fallston, MD
The Wankel rotary is a baby. It would be lucky to have the hundred-plus years of development the piston engine has. If Mazda keeps it up, we might just see amazing things out of it.
Nothing special about the latest 4g63, except that it's coming this way from the factory. DSM owners have been doing more than that with this motor for years now.
Nothing special about the latest 4g63, except that it's coming this way from the factory. DSM owners have been doing more than that with this motor for years now.
Originally posted by BlackLoTuS
Just because it makes good power doesn't mean it can't be improved upon. They could definitely make the motor lighter w/better emissions. As far as comparing American V-8's, that is a not a good comparison. 5.7 Liters & 8 cylinders for the 350 makes what, 400 hp (@70 hp/L). 8.0 L & 10 Cylinders in the Dodge 488ci makes @500hp? (62.5 hp/L). I know you can't make a direct comparison for displacement but if Honda were able to get the na hp/L ratio of the S2k they would have what 684 & 960 hp respectively. So high-tech AND displacement would win anyways.
Just because it makes good power doesn't mean it can't be improved upon. They could definitely make the motor lighter w/better emissions. As far as comparing American V-8's, that is a not a good comparison. 5.7 Liters & 8 cylinders for the 350 makes what, 400 hp (@70 hp/L). 8.0 L & 10 Cylinders in the Dodge 488ci makes @500hp? (62.5 hp/L). I know you can't make a direct comparison for displacement but if Honda were able to get the na hp/L ratio of the S2k they would have what 684 & 960 hp respectively. So high-tech AND displacement would win anyways.
Z06 LS6
engine weight: 497 lbs
power: 405 hp
torque: 400 ft-lbs
hp/#: 0.81 hp/#
Miles Per Gallon: 19/28
S2000:
engine weight: 326 lbs
power: 240 hp
torque: 153 ft-lbs
hp/#: 0.74 hp/#
Miles Per Gallon: 20/28
Personally I'll take the Z06 with 160 more horsepower and 247 more torque with similar gas mileage. Forget the hp/L argument, that means nothing to your car. What matters is how much power your engine makes per pound the engine weighs. The enemy of any car is weight...not the size of your cylinders.
The Z06 engine is awesome and is truely one of the best engines out there today. Don't get caught up in the hp/L hype. It's BS. What really matters is power, weight, and economy.
In Timeout
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
From: Penn State University
2 things...
1) HP to L argument...
If GM wanted to...they could make a LS1/LS6 variant that has 500+ Crank horsepower on pump gas... 50k for a Z06 is a bargain, imagine the technology GM has "laying" aroung waiting for the next itineration (spelling?) of the corvette engine? Or perhaps a Cadillac supercar (image builder)?
2) You would have a better idea about the 4G63 by logging onto the Supraforums and asking, "Are you guys excited about a NA V8 in the next Supra? Or would you rather have a 10+ year old/archaeic 2jz?"
Remember everything isn't equal...If all engines were equal...Displacement would be the king! Vipers would rule the world...alas not all engines are created equal! Sit in a Viper sometime...Why don't you see how well the AC works when that truck engine is melting your shoes?
1) HP to L argument...
If GM wanted to...they could make a LS1/LS6 variant that has 500+ Crank horsepower on pump gas... 50k for a Z06 is a bargain, imagine the technology GM has "laying" aroung waiting for the next itineration (spelling?) of the corvette engine? Or perhaps a Cadillac supercar (image builder)?
2) You would have a better idea about the 4G63 by logging onto the Supraforums and asking, "Are you guys excited about a NA V8 in the next Supra? Or would you rather have a 10+ year old/archaeic 2jz?"
Remember everything isn't equal...If all engines were equal...Displacement would be the king! Vipers would rule the world...alas not all engines are created equal! Sit in a Viper sometime...Why don't you see how well the AC works when that truck engine is melting your shoes?
Evolved Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
From: Nothern CA
I have owned two Vettes ("70" LT1 modded to 430 HP 410 fps, stock L98) and would not mind another one but I love my Evo for what it is. Power to weight is one thing but bang for the buck is another. If you are ok with pouring on the dollars why would you be going with an Evo in the first place? The Z06 is a great engine but it also costs rather more than our engine. Also, check out the insurance costs on the Z08.
BTW I would love to see a Z06 actually get 28 mpg...The one thing Vetts have never been able to pass is the gas station but then the Evo guzzles too.
The S2000 has low torque. Honda must agree becasue the "04" version is 2200.
Direct injection is old, but only on Diesels. It is difficult to bring to the US on spark ignition engines because of our fuel restrictions.
The comparisons here are moot as the original question concerning whether or not Mitsu should develop a new enigne for the Evo or continue to tune the present one still remain. With the current engine, higher boost from a larger intercooler and larger or better turbo will easily give more power but can the drive train take it?
BTW I would love to see a Z06 actually get 28 mpg...The one thing Vetts have never been able to pass is the gas station but then the Evo guzzles too.
The S2000 has low torque. Honda must agree becasue the "04" version is 2200.
Direct injection is old, but only on Diesels. It is difficult to bring to the US on spark ignition engines because of our fuel restrictions.
The comparisons here are moot as the original question concerning whether or not Mitsu should develop a new enigne for the Evo or continue to tune the present one still remain. With the current engine, higher boost from a larger intercooler and larger or better turbo will easily give more power but can the drive train take it?
Last edited by WildRice; Sep 25, 2003 at 09:45 AM.
Psycho EvoM software strikes again!!!
I saw this thread at the top yesterday, even though it had been inactive for 6 months. Best part is that nobody posted to bring it up here, the software just screwed up and thought the March post was in September.
WHAT CAUSES THIS??
I saw this thread at the top yesterday, even though it had been inactive for 6 months. Best part is that nobody posted to bring it up here, the software just screwed up and thought the March post was in September.
WHAT CAUSES THIS??
Evolved Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Originally posted by Noize
Psycho EvoM software strikes again!!!
I saw this thread at the top yesterday, even though it had been inactive for 6 months. Best part is that nobody posted to bring it up here, the software just screwed up and thought the March post was in September.
WHAT CAUSES THIS??
Psycho EvoM software strikes again!!!
I saw this thread at the top yesterday, even though it had been inactive for 6 months. Best part is that nobody posted to bring it up here, the software just screwed up and thought the March post was in September.
WHAT CAUSES THIS??
this isnt excatly correct but real close.I think it's the new car and driver but it states somthing along the lines that the next evo model comes out as a 2007 and for the us market it will be built like all future mitsubishis by dodge, but what i am getting at is that the next gen evo will be a v6.I am well aware that evos come out each year but the next gen will be a shared platform from dodge and mitsu for the evo and srt4.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Fallston, MD
Originally posted by brandon
this isnt excatly correct but real close.I think it's the new car and driver but it states somthing along the lines that the next evo model comes out as a 2007 and for the us market it will be built like all future mitsubishis by dodge, but what i am getting at is that the next gen evo will be a v6.I am well aware that evos come out each year but the next gen will be a shared platform from dodge and mitsu for the evo and srt4.
this isnt excatly correct but real close.I think it's the new car and driver but it states somthing along the lines that the next evo model comes out as a 2007 and for the us market it will be built like all future mitsubishis by dodge, but what i am getting at is that the next gen evo will be a v6.I am well aware that evos come out each year but the next gen will be a shared platform from dodge and mitsu for the evo and srt4.