View Poll Results: Which one is better?
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Bar & Plate or Tube & Fin?
Ok everyone, here are some pics i found. This intercooler is still totally in testing phase, so forgive me for the non-official pics. It's not due out until may. I can say with utmost confidence that when we're done, this will be THE BEST intercooler on the market hands down. The core will support 1000+ HP but at 700-800 hp it will probably still be at 70-75% efficiency while still maintaining stock lag and hardly any pressure loss IF ANY.
Last edited by myevostore.com; Feb 23, 2005 at 08:47 PM.
Originally Posted by myevostore.com
Ok everyone, here are some pics i found. This intercooler is still totally in testing phase, so forgive me for the non-official pics. It's not due out until may. I can say with utmost confidence that when we're done, this will be THE BEST intercooler on the market hands down. The core will support 1000+ HP but at 700-800 hp it will probably still be at 70-75% efficiency while still maintaining stock lag and hardly any pressure loss IF ANY.
After looking at the Nisei FMIC which has a lot of tube counts and is great, but if you look at the design they are very close together(dense). Will there be enought air traveling to the radiator?
That is definitely a concern... however, air through the intercooler is not the only path to the radiator on the Evo. I'm not making light, but just pointing out. Keeping in mind that Evo's already runs pretty hot as it is.
Originally Posted by myevostore.com
Ok everyone, here are some pics i found. This intercooler is still totally in testing phase, so forgive me for the non-official pics. It's not due out until may. I can say with utmost confidence that when we're done, this will be THE BEST intercooler on the market hands down. The core will support 1000+ HP but at 700-800 hp it will probably still be at 70-75% efficiency while still maintaining stock lag and hardly any pressure loss IF ANY.
Originally Posted by Str8Ryda
When I was in the market for an FMIC I found it very hard to make a choice. Between reading threads and calling manufacturers to find out what really makes their FMIC better than everyone else. Well I wasn’t able to get any straight answers, most of the people representing the companies didn’t know what they were talking about. No one had spec’s, everyone did different testing, no one could provide me with a reasonable answer, and no one could say why their intercooler was better. I spoke to quiet a few companies before I made my choice.. Spearco told me that theirs was 100 degrees lower than stock but, told me outlet temps were 175 deg F & they could not guarantee HP gains, BR said it would produce 12WHP had no temps but the car used for testing wasn’t stock it had upgrades, Greddy didn’t say what the difference was between the V & R specs were other than size, HKS wasn’t sure about whether it came with pipes or not. They made it clear it was Japanese spec, Perrin didn’t know how come their bar & plate was better than Spearco, & XS couldn’t really tell me why a tube header was better than a bar & plate. Well, here a couple of things I learned. Bar & Plates are usually stronger and better for most applications because they don’t heat soak as fast as a tube header especially while sitting idle. Since B&P have more material it takes more BTU’s to get it hot. More material also means it can absorb more heat & maintain high cooling efficiency. Lastly, they don’t have header flanges. The benefit of NOT having a header flange makes the tubes longer, wider, and intercooler actually bigger. A header flange is used to hold the tubes in place, that’s why it’s called a tube header intercooler not tube & fin. Wow its gotten a lot longer than I had expected. Well I found a company that was able to satisfy my quest for knowledge and made me a deal I couldn’t resist. They told me if their intercooler performed worse than stock I could return it. So, how could I pass a deal like that up. The bar & plate I bought is produced by a company called Nisei Engineering. I was determine to get my money back so I began testing.
Vehicle : completely stock
Test: open highway 4th gear, held it at 3000rpm and then full throttle til redline, 4 passes back to back.
Needless to say, I had to pay for my intercooler because it kicked the stock cores butt. Results overall average was:
Ambient Air – 82 degree F
Inlet Temp – 188 degree F
Outlet Temp – 95 degree F
As far as boost drop I wasn’t able to detect any difference. I was using 2 mechanical boost gauges so I didn’t see any drop off. What I can say is, I don’t believe it has any drop because the throttle response is actually better than the stock core. Not bad for under $700.
Well, I just wanted to share my experience with everyone and you all can take it for what it is. Lastly, here is a link about intercoolers for the EVO you might want to take a look at...you might just learn something, I know I did.
www.NiseiEngineering.com/Sample.swf
Vehicle : completely stock
Test: open highway 4th gear, held it at 3000rpm and then full throttle til redline, 4 passes back to back.
Needless to say, I had to pay for my intercooler because it kicked the stock cores butt. Results overall average was:
Ambient Air – 82 degree F
Inlet Temp – 188 degree F
Outlet Temp – 95 degree F
As far as boost drop I wasn’t able to detect any difference. I was using 2 mechanical boost gauges so I didn’t see any drop off. What I can say is, I don’t believe it has any drop because the throttle response is actually better than the stock core. Not bad for under $700.
Well, I just wanted to share my experience with everyone and you all can take it for what it is. Lastly, here is a link about intercoolers for the EVO you might want to take a look at...you might just learn something, I know I did.
www.NiseiEngineering.com/Sample.swf
Originally Posted by DocMortal
Buschur is bar and plate... ALso bar and plate is a better heatsink absorbing more heat on the hot side...
Ive had my buschur intercooler for 5000 miles and have put my hand at the inlet and outlet... Always a huge difference and getting nice cool air...Haven had it heat soak even after a long freeway run..
Ive had my buschur intercooler for 5000 miles and have put my hand at the inlet and outlet... Always a huge difference and getting nice cool air...Haven had it heat soak even after a long freeway run..
Last edited by Soon2BEVO; Feb 24, 2005 at 06:57 PM.
Talking on this topic , there are so many choices out there , what do you think would be a better choice for some auto cross stuff , I really like the design of cast end tanks , im more concernd on Bigger is not allways better , The greddy FMIC is up too the par as the others but it allmost a 1" thinner. I think its 2.65 " vs most FMIC which are 3" and some are 3.5" , IM really likeing the XS too . so i doint want the biggest and the badass one i just want one that performs well ,
Theres no end to this topic since everyone thinks there fmic is better...Including me since I own the best 
The design of the buschur IC will be better in autocross since your are getting much more airflow to your radiator making the engine run more efficient/cooler=More HP.
The design of the buschur IC will be better in autocross since your are getting much more airflow to your radiator making the engine run more efficient/cooler=More HP.
Last edited by DocMortal; Feb 25, 2005 at 01:09 AM.
Originally Posted by Derek888
After looking at the Nisei FMIC which has a lot of tube counts and is great, but if you look at the design they are very close together(dense). Will there be enought air traveling to the radiator?
We haven't experienced any heat issues at all with this core. We've been testing it for almost 10 months now on 2 evos with two different core designs. I drove to Las Vegas in the summer and the coolant needle was still below the mid-point. So far all of our tests have been for the stock turbo, one evo fully stock and mine with cams, turboback, boost controller (which will be tested next week).
Most cores on the market i've seen go up to the bottom of the bumper beam. Our core goes behind the bumper beam to the top of it. There are two air passages in the bumper beam that allow some cooling to that area. If you look though, above the bumper beam there must be about 7 - 10 inches of radiator surface exposed to outside air. While the fin density may seem like a restriction, there's still a lot of flow that goes through the core. We tested 3 - 4 different densities and found this one to be the best combination. Some people may critisize the fact we've made the core so tall because the limited air flow behind the bumper beam. This actually make the core a better heat sink and the heat gets distributed nicely even though that section of the core may not be exposed.
We're going to be testing the core next Friday again (we try to test under different conditions). Our last test yielded the following results:
Ambient temp: 82F
Inlet temp: 280F- 287F
Outlet temp: 94 - 97F
Speed: 4th gear close to redline WOT
Stay tuned! We're actually now going to be releasing the core early (instead of mid-May) and should have a production model by Monday, March 7th. Right now we have 60 pairs of end tanks getting polished and it should take about a day to get about a dozen or more assembled and packaged once the parts come back.
In two weeks we're building our full intercooler piping kit usable with our intercooler or the stock one. Our biggest decision at the moment is deciding what the market wants, alimunum or stainless? The obvious factor is the cost difference. What do you guys look for in IC piping?
If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to PM me or call me at the office 949-460-9397.
Rob
RL3 Motorsports/Nisei Engineering Rep
Last edited by myevostore.com; Feb 25, 2005 at 05:58 PM.
Originally Posted by Soon2BEVO
A freeway run is the place its least likely to heat soak. Its when you are driving around town stopped and such that no air is hitting it that it will heat soak. But either way, its an awesome intercooler!!!