boostfed

iTrader: (2)

well, I guess know back to the Million dollar question. What in/ex cams should I go with. I don't have enough experience to know. With emission, my emission test are pretty easy to past, in mind would the 272/272 make a difference. of course I'll aleast have some kinda ecu flash. I've seen the to differnet 264/272 vs 272/264 post and I didn't gain much from them besides a bunch of bios opinion. with knowing my setup, it's gonna be pretty mild, and wanting plent of midrange and topend power. my biggest upgrade will probably be a larger turbo. I don't plan on doing any kinda bottom end work beside maybe better rod bolts. from my gatherings. 264/264 is better for lowerend power and midrange power with mild topend gains. what's the difference between the to combos, 264/272 vs 272/264, and 272/272 seems to have mild lowend gains with better midrange and topend power. please help me out So I can gain a better understanding for what I need for my car. thanks

-Chad-

v8killer

iTrader: (1)

I installed 264/272 HKS cams. I drove it for a week without a flash and it was lopey but not overwhelmingly so. This weekend I got the Turbotrix flash and I honestly can't tell the difference between idle now and stock! Set-up is highly recommended.

siantjab

iTrader: (2)

According to dyno research that Al from Dynoflash did there is very very little difference between 264/264, 264/272, and 272/264. This is why he reccomends the 264/264 as the best all around street set up from HKS (though he's not a huge fan of HKS cams).

V8killer and I have very simillar set ups.. Maybe he and I can track them together and give some real 1320' results. How about this Saturday v8; Bradenton is open all day.

boostfed

iTrader: (2)

what's the advantages of the 264/272 over the 272/264. and also just straight 264 or 272. I wouldn't mind a little hint of lopy idle. I guess that the old hotrod enthusiast in me. thanks for any comments and replies.

-Chad-

2k4EvoVIII

iTrader: (15)

I have the cam cards for the Tomei cams at home i will get them for you tonight. Here is what i do have as far as duration at 1mm lift. Hope this helps.

Chris

HKS 264:
Duration of 206 deg @ 1mm

HKS 272:
Duration of 214 deg @ 1mm

JUN 264:
Duration of ___ deg @ 1mm

JUN 272:
Duration of 235 deg @ 1mm

Tomei Poncam:
Duration of ___ deg @ 1mm

Tomei Procam:
Duration of ___ deg @ 1mm

Piper Ultimate Road cams:
Duration of 217 deg intake / 211 deg exhaust @ 1mm

Piper Rally cams:
Duration of 217 deg @ 1mm

Piper Race cams:
Duration of 224 deg @ 1mm

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Just remember, the longer the duration, the more you have going against you when it comes to sniff test (emissions) time. Cam gears represent more or less a 'magic bullet' to this potential problem. Be advised.

If your mods are mild and you do not plan on fiddling with cam gears, the 264/264 set is your safest option where emissions testing is concerned.

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Ok, where making comparisons are concerned, that won't work unless you can do before and after with the same car. Why? Because even two stock cars can differ as much as 20hp.

siantjab

iTrader: (2)

I know man.. Notice the wink at the end?

V8 is a buddy of mine. I was just trying to get him out to the track w/ me this weekend. He knows my car will rape his.

j/k
..jab

v8killer

iTrader: (1)

That's true as well. Jab I am getting some tires soon for the stock rims and when I do I plan on headig to the track. I could run with the 19's but that would leave me with some disadvantage. Jab do you have any track #'s yet? I have been wanting to go, and now would be a good time, since I am done modding for awhile... ya right

siantjab

iTrader: (2)

Nah, no numbers yet.. Haven't been since I was stock. That's why I wanna make it out there this weekend!! I'll shoot you a PM w/ my results though.

Lemme know when you're down to go and we'll do it. Now that it's not hot as all h3ll outside.

BTW, you're never done modding; it's in the blood!

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Yep, it does help.

What we see here is the HKS 264 set easily has the shortest real duration, and should idle close to stock. You should be able to install this set straight up, without cam gears, and it should improve power potential without adversely affecting PT driving and idle characteristics.

The Piper Rally cams have an advertised duration of 265, but actually have duration comparable to the HKS 272 set. The ramp is a little more aggressive than the HKS set (valves open/shut faster), and it will be a little harder on the valve train (why better springs are recommended). So long as the head flow indicates an ability to take advantage of the slightly higher lift (.450" vs. .425"/401" for the HKS), there is a bit more area under the curve and therefore possibly a bit more ultimate potential.

Now the JUN 272 cams show a looong 235 degress of duration at 1mm lift, and give much more overlap than the HKS 272 cams or the Pipers. This set will give a rough idle. Like the Piper set, it has a faster ramp than the HKS set, which is why better springs are recommended. I'd recommend a set of cam gears with this set, and I could recommend some settings to try along with that as well.

The data for the Tomei cams will be interesting to see.

Also, we have to consider the fact that the HKS and Piper sets show slightly lower lift (and also duration for the Pipers) on the exhaust side, which indicates they are trying to favor the intake side flow. This may indicate the intake port does not flow as well as it should to match the exhaust port flow. Anyone who's done headflow work should be able to verify this.

boostfed

iTrader: (2)

I definatly plan on doing cam gears. I have seen some great HP gains with correctly tuned cam gears. dangit. I hate living in tennessee. everytime I say the word tune I get sad because the lack of tunners and dynos kill me. the closes awd dyno is about 3 hours away from me. is it possible to get a emission-passing capable car with a flash. ((well I guess I'm asking the wrong people. I'll go talk to Al later about this)). all OBDII (1996 or newer cars) do not get the sniffer test where I live. all they do hook up to the obdII port and scan the sensors. I don't know if this means it's easier to pass or not, but it seems like it might be. I don't know. I guess I'll find out. I just for some reason keep getting the though in my head that, "bigger is better". I guess that's just the lack of knowledge in this area. I guess I would like a good reason why I shouldn't go with the larger 272's over the 264. I gonna keep reading. thanks everyone for this go information. this has been a pretty good post so far.

-Chad-

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Quite frankly, I doubt you'd be disappointed with either cam set. Even if the test only involves an ODBII port scan however, I might be inclined to dial out several degrees of overlap with the 272 set before going to take the test.

ez76

iTrader: (5)

If your head is ported, running oversize valves, etc., are higher lift/longer duration cams really that much more helpful?

On a turbo car, beyond a certain point, are cams really a band-aid for working around a poorly flowing head?

boostfed

iTrader: (2)

I guess what I'm saying is would it be dumb of assume that with the proper tuning is the more power in the 272's then the 264's. also I guess I need to read up and learn a better understanding of cam gear adjustment. I have never had adjustable cam gears so there for i have no experience with it. I guess that's gonna be another deciding factor once when I purchase cams. am i gonna be able to adjust these on my own or am I gonna need to go somewhere and have these adjust on a dyno. I fill like such an idiot right now. I hate when I don't know enought about something to understand fully. I fill there gonna be some long nights on the internet learning about cam gears and there perpose. thanks

-Chad-