Big FMIC bad idea with stock turbo?
Originally Posted by umiami80
Yup, before my IC Piping I had 320WHP, then Ii added the IC Piping and a Pully, just the crank Pulley, I got me 350WHP, go figure.
welps... i've heard of certain intercoolers (greddy) making more boost after swap, so that just says you want a less restrictive intercooler for a turbo the size that our 4 cylinder can handle.
Well, that's just it...the pressure drop is insignificant with the stock turbo. Persons here have recorded disappointing results both on the dyno and at the track with larger ICs. Furthermore, there are cars running 11sec E.T.s with the stock turbo and IC. In short, it clearly demonstrates that a larger IC is not really a benefit unless you're going to put a larger turbo on it.
I strongly suspect another factor in the 'before' example.
Nope sorry, the Lower IC pipe makes the Power, the upper really doesn't do anything but NOT blow off under boost, like my stockers were doing. They are also 2.5 inches Vs. 2.0 and that Stock Lower pipe is SUCH trash, chaging the Lower IC pipe is such a seat of teh pants feel, I swapped them out one Saturday, the Power Difference was Immediate and noticable.
WAY faster spool (and even FASTER with The pully 21 PSI @ 3000 RPMS, it spools SO fast)
Harder boost hit, not a soft roll on as much as a hard felt "THWACK" and can break the wheels loose.
Boost DOES NOT FALL OFF, it just doesn't anymore, 21PSI to 8000 RPMS
WAY WAY better throttle response.
It has to be oone of my favorite mods, my 272's being my Favorite.
I have the AMS lower IC. It isn't a 30whp difference, period. Until your butt dyno spits out a calibrated power graph (I won't hold my breath 
), I'll stick to what the real dyno reveals. Others who don't have it with similar setups aren't down on power by much. I'm not saying it isn't worthwhile, just that it isn't worth 30whp...unless there was a problem prior to installing it (e.g. boost leak).
Finally, if boost DOES NOT FALL OFF, it simply means the setup cannot move enough air to reach the limit of the factory turbo.
), I'll stick to what the real dyno reveals. Others who don't have it with similar setups aren't down on power by much. I'm not saying it isn't worthwhile, just that it isn't worth 30whp...unless there was a problem prior to installing it (e.g. boost leak).Finally, if boost DOES NOT FALL OFF, it simply means the setup cannot move enough air to reach the limit of the factory turbo.
Last edited by Ted B; Nov 16, 2004 at 07:21 AM.
I have the Hks Intercooler with lower and upper intercooler piping. It looks nice, but I can't really say it has made any difference hp wise. Once I upgrade the turbo, I'd suspect that it will be worthwhile though.
FWIW, the lower IC seems to be worth a few hp, and like umiami80 keeps insisting above, transient response characteristics. The upper IC pipe seems to be mostly cosmetic (unfortunately). Like you said, you'll realize the benefits of the larger IC if you go to something like a 3037.
Couple of things. First a larger intercooler core will generally mean a lower pressure drop, not a larger, depending on the design. Think of it as trying to blow through a straw and a large hose. Next, the largest draw back to putting in a super huge intercooler is having to actually fill it with air. Remember, boost is back pressure, until everything is full there is no boost. The larger the intercooler the longer it can take to fill. Going from a poorly designed system with a small core to a well designed system with a large good flowing core can increase spool up even though there is more to fill.
A guy called here and wanted to do some independent testing on a few FMIC kits for the EVO's on his car on a dyno on the same day. I was sceptical but sent a core out to him anyway. He wanted the information kept quiet but gave the vendors the results, he didn't want anyone mad. Of the intercoolers tested on a 320 whp EVO8 with 93 octane and 20 psi of boost ours made the most. We gained 17 whp. We did not do the test nor was it performed here. I think that is a realistic amount to expect. This was our deluxe kit that comes with the short lower pipe. As the HP levels go up the gains from a more efficient intercooler are going to raise also.
Also, someone else was dead on. END TANK DESIGN IS not only important it is CRITICAL in choosing your FMIC.
With stock turbo'd EVO's going 11.2's at 124 mph now with our Stage 4 upgrades on them it shows that combination is the key to getting the cars to work.
The FMIC is a must do piece long before a turbo upgrade and many other parts.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
A guy called here and wanted to do some independent testing on a few FMIC kits for the EVO's on his car on a dyno on the same day. I was sceptical but sent a core out to him anyway. He wanted the information kept quiet but gave the vendors the results, he didn't want anyone mad. Of the intercoolers tested on a 320 whp EVO8 with 93 octane and 20 psi of boost ours made the most. We gained 17 whp. We did not do the test nor was it performed here. I think that is a realistic amount to expect. This was our deluxe kit that comes with the short lower pipe. As the HP levels go up the gains from a more efficient intercooler are going to raise also.
Also, someone else was dead on. END TANK DESIGN IS not only important it is CRITICAL in choosing your FMIC.
With stock turbo'd EVO's going 11.2's at 124 mph now with our Stage 4 upgrades on them it shows that combination is the key to getting the cars to work.
The FMIC is a must do piece long before a turbo upgrade and many other parts.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
For some reason David, people are convinced that a FMIC will make no power with the OE turbo... I disagree heavily.
PS I'd like to see the difference you newer version FMIC (one that fits )would make on a 300whp car down here is hot-assed Texas.
PS I'd like to see the difference you newer version FMIC (one that fits
)would make on a 300whp car down here is hot-assed Texas.
A tuned EVO at the 350whp level that recently demonstrated only ~3whp with a very well respected IC, and another user who's posted just above in this thread experienced about the same - and measured little pressure drop through the factory IC with the factory turbo going full tilt. There are no mysteries associated with these tests, and both individuals have made the specifics public.
As for what you quoted above, we don't know any specifics about the test or the tuning (or a lack thereof) associated with the test, which obviously can play into the results. Nevertheless, even if we ventured forth to assume the reported number is valid, we must also point out that your deluxe kit also includes a lower IC pipe, and therefore one cannot differentiate what came from the better piping and what came from the IC alone. That being said, we DO know a bit of power can be obtained from a better lower IC pipe, but I have yet to see any valid test indicate more than a few whp can be expected from a larger IC with the factory turbo. And let's face it, the difference in price between a lower IC pipe and a larger IC is considerable.
As for what you quoted above, we don't know any specifics about the test or the tuning (or a lack thereof) associated with the test, which obviously can play into the results. Nevertheless, even if we ventured forth to assume the reported number is valid, we must also point out that your deluxe kit also includes a lower IC pipe, and therefore one cannot differentiate what came from the better piping and what came from the IC alone. That being said, we DO know a bit of power can be obtained from a better lower IC pipe, but I have yet to see any valid test indicate more than a few whp can be expected from a larger IC with the factory turbo. And let's face it, the difference in price between a lower IC pipe and a larger IC is considerable.
Last edited by Ted B; Nov 16, 2004 at 10:32 AM.
Originally Posted by Zeus
For some reason David, people are convinced that a FMIC will make no power with the OE turbo... I disagree heavily.